- From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
- Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2019 12:16:57 +0000
- To: "public-audio-description@w3.org" <public-audio-description@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <D8B7DF22.3F613%nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Thanks to those who could join today’s call. We were a small bunch, but made some good progress I think.
In particular, there seems to be consensus at the moment on issue 1 (https://github.com/w3c/adpt/issues/1) that we only need to support media timebase at first. If that seems wrong to you, please do add a comment to the issue.
Minutes can be found in HTML form at https://www.w3.org/2019/03/20-audio-description-minutes.html
In text form:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
Audio Description Community Group
20 Mar 2019
[2]Agenda
[2] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio-description/2019Mar/0003.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] https://www.w3.org/2019/03/20-audio-description-irc
Attendees
Present
Nigel, Óran, Tracey
Regrets
Chair
Nigel
Scribe
nigel
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]This meeting
2. [6]Issues
3. [7]Status with TTWG
4. [8]Speed scan through document
* [9]Summary of Action Items
* [10]Summary of Resolutions
__________________________________________________________
<scribe> scribe: nigel
This meeting
Nigel: [iterates through agenda]
... Any other business?
group: [no other business]
Issues
Nigel: We have 4 open issues, only one of which is really
important
[11]Issues on ADPT
[11] https://github.com/w3c/adpt/issues
Nigel: Issue 4 is typos, following Cyril's review
... Issue 3 is another editorial task fixing an HTML fragment
id
... Issue 2 was raised by me, and its about removing a note
about DFXP, which is again mainly editorial
... Issue 1 is the main one I wanted to discuss
[12]https://github.com/w3c/adpt/issues/1
[12] https://github.com/w3c/adpt/issues/1
Nigel: My first list of features only included media time, but
the first edit of the document includes media time,
... clock time and smpte timecode.
Tracey: Editing AD scripts is easier from a practical point of
view if they use smpte timecode
Nigel: My reference was that IMSC for subtitles only supports
media time.
... Also, even with media timebase you can still use frame
based time expressions.
... The question is then whether the reference point is the
beginning of the media (e.g. the equivalent of, say 10:00:00:00
... in timecode), or the zero timecode point.
... There have been issues reported in the past about the use
of smpte timecode especially in discontinuous mode,
... if the burned in timecode in video doesn't reflect the
timecode data, for example. Also the complexity of the
... AD files themselves would be increased because relative
times cannot be used inside the document, so every
... time would have to be replaced by a fixed non-relative
smpte timecode label.
... I discussed this with Yella Umbrella a few weeks ago and
the conclusion was they could live without SMPTE timecode.
... My proposal is to simplify the spec as much as possible and
only support media timebase, and possibly include
... some examples of how they could work with SMPTE
timecode-like values in them.
... I could propose use of some metadata to signal the basis of
time expressions.
Óran: I tend to agree, it's unnecessary to include smpte
timebase in the document.
Nigel: Is there a need for clock times too?
Óran: I can't imagine there is for AD.
Tracey: Not for AD
Nigel: OK we're in agreement here for now, so just for the
minutes, we have a (small) consensus to support media timebase
only,
... so we can record that and if anyone disagrees let them come
back via the issue or the reflector.
... That's all the issues.
Status with TTWG
Nigel: Sorry for missing this before!
... W3C process means that only Working Groups can publish
Recommendations, i.e. standards.
... Timed Text Working Group (TTWG) works on TTML
specifications, and I also Chair that.
... I proposed that TTWG adopts this and that proposal was
accepted, for work in 2019.
... The TTWG Charter is being revised to include it, hopefully
to be confirmed in May or June.
... That Charter will refer to our document as the basis.
... So we have a few weeks or so to get the document in as good
a state as possible.
Speed scan through document
Nigel: Any initial high level comments on the document?
Óran: Having trouble navigating through the page.
Tracey: I will go through it with Óran.
Nigel: Is there anything we can do to help that?
Óran: The way the document is labelled and the navigation
system works is a bit cumbersome.
Nigel: I'd like to know more about that.
Óran: Like a lot of web pages, their layout is not very well
formatted for use with screen readers so navigating headings
scribe: Óran: can be a bit tricky. I encounter this quite a
lot.
Nigel: It would be super-helpful to be able to feed any issues
back to W3C and to the team maintaining the Respec tool.
... [iterates through document]
... Seems like the Introduction should go as close to the top
as possible.
Óran: Yes!
Nigel: I would also like to move one or more of the examples
into the introduction to help readers understand the
... kind of document that is being specified.
Óran: Yes.
Nigel: Then there's a section on Workflow and another on
Requirements. Some of the workflow can probably move to
... the Introduction, if it helps understand the scope.
Tracey: Yes, the diagram especially.
Nigel: Then the detail, and the list of requirements I would
put into an appendix.
Tracey: Yes
Óran: Yes, I can't see the diagram of course!
Nigel: True - that's why there's a table listing the workflow
steps, though it's not a 100% perfect replacement, more an
... extra layer of detail.
... Then we have the Profile section itself, which is very
short, and just references the Constraints section.
... The Constraints section is the main body of the
specification. It describes the encoding, namespaces,
extensibility,
... synchonisation, profile signalling, and most importantly of
all, the set of permitted or prohibited TTML features.
... Those features are the most important thing! I'd hope to
move those closer to the top of the document too.
... In IMSC, for example, they're in section 6, here they've
got down to section 9.
... then there are appendices, the examples, Web Audio mixing,
acknowledgements and references.
... Any other observations about the document structure?
Tracey: It's the most detail I've seen.
Óran: Is embedding audio description something to be discussed?
Nigel: I think the scope of this is upstream of embedding - the
goal here is to define the script and the audio mixing,
... which can be used to generate the audio for embedding.
There are already other standards for embedding, so in that
... sense it is not needed.
Óran: Yes
Nigel: I wouldn't rule out in-band carriage of the TTML AD
script as a piece of work in the future, to provide the script
... and audio to a player for native playback or screen reader
use, for example.
...
... Okay, that's our agenda, and we're a bit over time. I will
turn those into editing actions and follow up with John Birch.
... If he can't do the editing then I will try to.
... Thanks for joining. [adjourns meeting]
Summary of Action Items
Summary of Resolutions
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by
David Booth's [13]scribe.perl version 1.154 ([14]CVS log)
$Date: 2019/03/20 12:15:53 $
[13] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
[14] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
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Received on Wednesday, 20 March 2019 12:17:22 UTC