RE: Minutes: ARIA APG meeting - September 29 Tuesday

Carolyn,

 

I support standardizing on a key for moving among landmark regions, feeds, non-modals, etc. We could call it an area navigation command. It seems there is momentum toward ctrl/cmd+F6. My points were:

1. Unmodified F6 is not a good choice due to conflict with important browser function.
2. APG should allow flexible definition of behavior.
3. Browsers could provide a default area navigation behavior for the area navigation command.
4. Authrors who wish to do so could also provide area navigation as well, overriding the browser behavior in browsers where it exists.

 

What I mean by flexible in definition of behavior is that the ideal behavior will vary among sites. Perhaps there is a default behavior generally recognized as useful that could be implemented by browsers. Maybe the default is to cycle focus among landmark regions. Perhaps if a region has not previously contained focus, the focus is placed on the region itself. But,  if the region has previously contained focus, maybe ctrl+F6 moves focus to the last focused element in that region. However, if the user has recently tabbed out of the region, it would likely be better for tabbing out to reset memory so area navigation would focus the first element.

 

Note that while non-modal dialogs have their own tab ring which enables easy movement from last to first and first to last focusable element, regions do not. So, that could make it difficult to get to the start of a region if last position is remembered. We may want to consider having a key for moving focus to the start of a region.

 

When guiding authors on design of area navigation, I suggest the APG should not be overly prescriptive. Rather, it should help authors provide navigation among areas of a page in ways that are most logical and useful for the particular page. It could move to areas that are not defined by a landmark region. In particular, it could include non-modal dialogs. For some areas it might focus a specific interactive element because it is the starting point of an important flow, e.g., search. In other cases, the area navigation command might place focus on the last focused element in that area.

 

We have two patterns that are essentially blocked for lack of consensus on an area navigation key – window splitter and non-modal dialog. If consensus is forming around ctrl/cmd+F6, we could unblock both if we build out this notion of area navigation accordingly.

 

I just raised issue 1546 to discuss the proposal of converging requirements for multiple patterns in this way.

https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/1546

 

Best,

Matt

 

From: Carolyn MacLeod <Carolyn_MacLeod@ca.ibm.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 9:31 PM
To: jku@illinois.edu
Cc: public-aria-practices@w3.org
Subject: Re: Minutes: ARIA APG meeting - September 29 Tuesday

 

I am SO sorry that I had to leave right before the discussion about F6 key!

Was anything resolved? I can't quite tell from the notes (pasted below).

 

It seems that Matt was saying that splitter pattern should leave the choice of pane navigation key up to the author?

 

Also, I think James said that macOS could use F6 without modifiers?

Note that Safari and Chrome don't use F6 on macOS, but Firefox does.

On Windows, Chrome, Firefox, and Edge all use F6 for navigating through various parts of the browser.

 

In case it's useful, here's a list <https://defkey.com/what-means/f6>  of programs that support F6, which includes Edge, Safari, FF (mac/win), Chrome (win).

(of course, add Shift to reverse direction)

 

Option+F6 (aka Alt+F6) used <http://allhotkeys.com/opera_hotkeys.html#keys-switching>  to be supported in Opera for their tabbed browsing, but I suspect they changed it to match the other browsers, because there's no mention of F6 in Opera's <https://help.opera.com/en/latest/shortcuts/#tabKeys>  latest keyboard shortcuts doc. So it looks like Option+F6 (mac) and Alt+F6 (win) may actually be available.

 

As for Ctrl+F6 <https://defkey.com/search?irq=ctrl%2Bf6>  (win) and Cmd+F6 <https://defkey.com/what-means/command-f6>  (mac), there are certainly many programs that use those key shortcuts, but none of the browsers as far as I can tell (except for older versions of Opera). If anyone knows otherwise, please let me know.

 

Note that Control+F6 <https://defkey.com/reserved-apple-macos-shortcuts>  (i.e. the Control key on mac, not Command key) is reserved by macOS for navigating panes (not quite sure which apps that works in).


Mallory mentioned the backtick (grave accent) character ` might be a possibility. Cmd+` <https://defkey.com/reserved-apple-macos-shortcuts#shortcut-66447>  is reserved on macOS to cycle through the windows of the frontmost app, and Option+Cmd+` <https://defkey.com/reserved-apple-macos-shortcuts#shortcut-66449>  (mac) goes to the open drawer. Ctrl+` <https://defkey.com/chrome-devtools-shortcuts#shortcut-5749>  (win) focuses the DevTools Console in Chrome. But Alt+` <https://defkey.com/search?irq=alt+%60>  (win) and Control+` <https://defkey.com/search?irq=control+%60>  (mac) don't seem to be used in browsers... so maybe they're available?

 

Matt, I'm still hoping to use use Ctrl+F6 (win) and Cmd+F6 (mac) for landmarks.

If specific splitter panes and non-modal dialogs make sense as landmarks, then they could be in the landmark navigation.

Or maybe splitter pane and non-modal dialog navigation can be done with Alt+F6 (win) and Option+F6 (mac), or maybe Alt+` (win) and Control+` (mac)?

 

If anybody knows of other available key shortcuts that might be suitable, please speak up! :)


Car


Keyboard nav among sections


 <https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/130#issuecomment-700278041> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/130#issuecomment-700278041

mck: redundant use of F6 key in various platform causes problem
... I am leaning toward of flexibility of using key for sections - not necessarily focus on landmark region. F6 is also used for dialog.
... I am wondering whether option key is a good modifier for F6 key.

james: MacOS would not need a modifier.

mck: This was one of blocker for creating non-modal pattern.
... it is something should be done by author(developer)

Develop example of window splitter design pattern #130

 

----- Original message -----
From: "Ku, JaEun Jemma" <jku@illinois.edu <mailto:jku@illinois.edu> >
To: "public-aria-practices@w3.org <mailto:public-aria-practices@w3.org> " <public-aria-practices@w3.org <mailto:public-aria-practices@w3.org> >
Cc:
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Minutes: ARIA APG meeting - September 29 Tuesday
Date: Tue, Sep 29, 2020 3:07 PM
 

Here is the record of having fun and laughs at the ARIA APG meeting. 

https://www.w3.org/2020/09/29-aria-apg-minutes.html <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_2020_09_29-2Daria-2Dapg-2Dminutes.html&d=DwMGaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=7pxjQj6Sn7GadcQXUI8qdHzQ7owon0mR-h863iCnxZc&m=r8QFq3ytpbYloxZVAIwn-CbBv9HPhtj-VjJkGdKLZqQ&s=ji7tzyIWax9N38ilryhV_qNTMnxaQsPmXjSyzgnt6-E&e=> 

Best, 

 

JaEun Jemma Ku, PhD, PMP

Manager of Web Applications Development

Co-Facilitator and Editor of  <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_TR_wai-2Daria-2Dpractices-2D1.2_&d=DwMGaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=7pxjQj6Sn7GadcQXUI8qdHzQ7owon0mR-h863iCnxZc&m=r8QFq3ytpbYloxZVAIwn-CbBv9HPhtj-VjJkGdKLZqQ&s=vowO_7YIB6mKykixp5JrQczsQpqhlgKiGs9MeHBag8I&e=> W3C ARIA APG

 

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From: "Ku, JaEun Jemma" <jku@illinois.edu <mailto:jku@illinois.edu> >
Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 at 7:51 AM
To: "public-aria-practices@w3.org <mailto:public-aria-practices@w3.org> " <public-aria-practices@w3.org <mailto:public-aria-practices@w3.org> >
Subject: Today! - ARIA APG meeting - September 29 Tuesday
Resent-From: <public-aria-practices@w3.org <mailto:public-aria-practices@w3.org> >
Resent-Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 at 7:51 AM

 

Hi all, 

 

Here is ARIA APG meeting agenda today.

 

1.     Agenda:  https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/September-29%2C-2020-Agenda <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_w3c_aria-2Dpractices_wiki_September-2D29-252C-2D2020-2DAgenda&d=DwMGaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=7pxjQj6Sn7GadcQXUI8qdHzQ7owon0mR-h863iCnxZc&m=r8QFq3ytpbYloxZVAIwn-CbBv9HPhtj-VjJkGdKLZqQ&s=d0DR7JeSJfo2EnW-fB3AHQR8y8EW9v515dh3WdDTmN4&e=> 

 

2.     Logistics:

* Time: 11:00 AM US Pacific, Tuesday
* Duration: 60 minutes
* IRC server: irc.w3.org, port: 6665, channel: #aria-apg
* Call details: ARIA <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_2017_08_telecon-2Dinfo-5Fapg&d=DwMFaQ&c=OCIEmEwdEq_aNlsP4fF3gFqSN-E3mlr2t9JcDdfOZag&r=rFUXx2e9esgOU_SQf_woJw&m=rUMCG0-_GE22tq7mBEXOOKL0pEVZLzAHecAdDGX1pPE&s=w4yZk5Z8ksNQAcppHPo4djDGLwlfVt4DXUYu2BGoEyY&e=>  APG meeting info

 

To join the audio conference only:

 

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Best,

 

JaEun Jemma Ku, PhD, PMP

Manager of Web Applications Development

Co-Facilitator and Editor of  <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_TR_wai-2Daria-2Dpractices-2D1.2_&d=DwMGaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=7pxjQj6Sn7GadcQXUI8qdHzQ7owon0mR-h863iCnxZc&m=r8QFq3ytpbYloxZVAIwn-CbBv9HPhtj-VjJkGdKLZqQ&s=vowO_7YIB6mKykixp5JrQczsQpqhlgKiGs9MeHBag8I&e=> W3C ARIA APG

 

UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS EXTENSION

551 Bevier Hall, MC-547

905 S. Goodwin | Urbana, IL 61801

Phone: (217) 244-2145

jku@illinois.edu <mailto:jku@illinois.edu>  | http://extension.illinois.edu <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__extension.illinois.edu_&d=DwMGaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=7pxjQj6Sn7GadcQXUI8qdHzQ7owon0mR-h863iCnxZc&m=r8QFq3ytpbYloxZVAIwn-CbBv9HPhtj-VjJkGdKLZqQ&s=nGmqcFww6-rU-gv3JpkZcCxNG1L3S3JYPrcNrg2AvuE&e=>