Minutes - ARIA-AT call - Wednesday 2020-04-29

The meeting was scribed by Jon Gunderson and I am sharing the minute on behalf of Jon.
https://www.w3.org/2020/04/29-aria-at-minutes.html


Best,
Jemma
[W3C]<http://www.w3.org/>
- DRAFT -
ARIA and Assistive Tech Community Group Telecon
29 Apr 2020
Attendees
Present
jongund, Joe_Humbert, Matt_King, isaacdurazo, Jemma
Regrets
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
jongund
Contents

  *   Topics<https://www.w3.org/2020/04/29-aria-at-minutes.html#agenda>
     *   Create tests for APG design pattern: checkbox<https://www.w3.org/2020/04/29-aria-at-minutes.html#item01>
     *   Create tests for APG design pattern: menubar<https://www.w3.org/2020/04/29-aria-at-minutes.html#item02>
     *   Create tests for APG example: Editable Combobox With Both List and Inline Autocomplete<https://www.w3.org/2020/04/29-aria-at-minutes.html#item03>
     *   "applies_to" key needs to have correct VoiceOver string<https://www.w3.org/2020/04/29-aria-at-minutes.html#item04>
     *   Aria AT - Reports Home Page<https://www.w3.org/2020/04/29-aria-at-minutes.html#item05>
     *   Which browser / AT combinations to test<https://www.w3.org/2020/04/29-aria-at-minutes.html#item06>
  *   Summary of Action Items<https://www.w3.org/2020/04/29-aria-at-minutes.html#ActionSummary>
  *   Summary of Resolutions<https://www.w3.org/2020/04/29-aria-at-minutes.html#ResolutionSummary>

________________________________
<scribe> scribe: jongund
MK: Listing agenda items
... Home page discussion is higher priority
Create tests for APG design pattern: checkbox
https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/54

MF: I can be the timer
MK: If I want to change the assertions, what I should do is change the CSV file
JG: Just edit the CSV and then generate the test files
MK: Is there any reason to generate the test files?
JG: Yout can view them using the local server
<zcorpan> https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/157

SP: The is issue 157, so there may not be good to generate the test files
... Not checking in the test files will reduce conflicits
MK: If you do it this way, after your merge the commit, that means the ..
... Someone with access master would generate
SP: There would be a separate place they would be built, they would not be in master
MK: We will not be using github pages for very long
... I am fine not generating page in a PR
SP: We should probably generate them for now
JG: The author needs to see if what they created in the CSV files works
SP: There will be a CI process to generate the pages
MK: I was hoping to,.... we need to separate the assertions for getting into and out of a group
... Right now the current assertion wording is not working, I am working on modifying them
... You can expect a PR and hopefully a no brainer for review
MF: Is this the simple checkbox?
MK: This is grouped checkbox
... We can put the code for the simple checkbox into the repo
MF: I put this into the checkbox issue awhilw back, there is also have UL/LI markup in the example
MK: I will not address that in the current PR
Create tests for APG design pattern: menubar
https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/54

MK: I have not reviewed
MF: We added some information on current SR behavior of the menu on the Firefox browser
MK: There needs to be some alignment between our assertions and what we found
MF: I have not reviewed
... How is the sign off going to work for a test
MK: It is this group that says its good enough for the screen reader people to test
... Given wear we are in time, I am not personally comfortable giving something to a screen reader developers until I have persoanally used
... I have a lot invested in getting the screen reader people on board
JG: I can look at it more this week to
MK: There is a reference now
Create tests for APG example: Editable Combobox With Both List and Inline Autocomplete
MK: We are punting on this right now
JG: trying to close
"applies_to" key needs to have correct VoiceOver string
https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/166

SP: I want to make sure someone will make this change
MF: I can make the change
... We need to update all the CSV files?
SP: Yes and regenerate
MK: Which CSV files?
... Will it affect what I am working on?
MF: I will do it tomorrow or Friday
MK: I will not worry about it
Aria AT - Reports Home Page
https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/159

Isaac: At a version both AT and browsers, the team says thats pretty easy to add
SP: You mean operating system
MK: When you read across a row, you would see both the screen reader, browser and operating system
<Jemma> Is this where I can see most updated mock up, https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/wiki/Aria-AT-Wireframes?

<Joe_Humbert> https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/159#issuecomment-620149068

MK: Just the major version of the browser
... It would be really clear what AT and browser you were testing
... Sorting on plan and browser, I sugested all
... I meant descending on date of creation
Isaac: I am wondering if that information can be hidden some how, I will talk to Valarie..
<Joe_Humbert> the one in github has changed
MK: The most recent test cycles at the top, sorting by AT next
Isaac: The test plan and then browser
Isacc: I want to discuss the filter mechanism
MK: What for AT and status (draft or final), for view 1
... I am not real keen on the global one, because you cannot make it a select
... We need another 5 minutes on this one
Isaac: That is a good point, from the global one they will type on Jaws or j
MK: For the global one you don't know what you are filtering on
... Even in the longer term, if you don't type it right. when there is VO for macOS and iOS, you need to filter on these
SP: Don't we want to filter on more than one AT
MK: I think on version 2
... I am just thing about what we need right now, we are only working with 3 ATs
... Are non-goals were to make it easy to compare ATs
JH: If you filter on Jaws on the long run, the others can be added in V2
... Make it easier for this vision
JK: what is the meaning of "global"??
Isaac: anything in the table can be searched
MK: You couldn't search for JAWS draft results
Isacc: I will double check with them
MK: If for a V1 requirement, super easy to implement
... Just ask from an engineering side, filter on AT status draft or final, at developers may want that
JH: I think you can do that with global, it would either sort those first or last
MK: I was thinking about how this evolves long term. do you want to keep the global and how it would work with other filtering
JK: Global is vague and might not meet immediate user needs
MK: Let's get some feedback from the engineers
... We can switch from global to more specific at a later time, if global works not and is easiest
Isacc: We still have a couple weeks before we work on these pages
MK: If you first sorted by plan and then by browser, what I would hope ..., it sorts everything by plan, checkbox...
... Looking at example in issue
... If you sort by plan and by browser, it would still be sorted by plan and browser
... You would have everything for given AT and then everything in Jaws and Chrome would be together
... Multi-level sorting
Isaac: That was what I was thinking
JH: That seems to be complex
MK: Long term you could have a multi-sort dialog
JH: It is more complex than the standard sort by column
MK: If the sort algorithm is to hard..
Isacc: I will bring to the team
MK: Anything on the reports home page, is there a summary of results, like percent passing
Isacc: I will ask the engineers
MK: The numbers should be based on final tests not drafts
MF: Things we are not trying to do
... Do we want to compare screen readers at a high level?
MK: I can go either way, it is nice to have a summary
... We can ask our stake holders
... JC never said there is nothing wrong with shaming, not everyone would agree
SP: The way we present results, does into lump everything into a score
MF: Will this accomplish the non-goal
<Jemma> but when John Folio mentioned "can I use?", doesn't it imply the comparision among screen readers?
MK: It you have 60-70 results, is the average meaningful?
... I am not sure that it would
zkaim, next item
Which browser / AT combinations to test
https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/116

SP: We have not decided that we wll test FF and Edge with Jaws
... We need to test exact versions, so testers know what they need
MK: Can we do the second one first
... Should we cater to the screen reader ..
... If edge and chrome are exactly the same, then maybe we don't need to do both
... Let Jaws have the final word
SP: It also effects there product
MF: There could be browser bugs
JH: I am comfortable setting up VM, other testers may not want to use older version of browsers
MK: Take Googles input and work with the other stakeholders
... How long that test cycle may take, we start with Chrome 81 and part way through the release to 82, some people maynot be able to stay on 81
... That will not ever happen with assistive technologies
... I don't know what we do if browser automatically update
... Do we have mixed results?
MF: I am thinking outside the box right now
... There is another project that you can pick specific borwsers or browser/ATs to build a VM
MK: How would that work with SR?
JH: It will not work very well for screen readers
MK: We want to make sure screen reader users
JH: If there is a company that can host a VM for all testers to use
got to go
<Jemma> MF: I can find more information about this.
<Jemma> MK: you can add what you found to the issue.
<Jemma> MF: I will give you the direct contact to this person, Matt.
Summary of Action Items
Summary of Resolutions
[End of minutes]
________________________________

From: Michael Fairchild <michael.fairchild@deque.com>
Date: Monday, April 27, 2020 at 10:35 AM
To: "public-aria-at@w3.org" <public-aria-at@w3.org>
Subject: ARIA-AT call - Wednesday 2020-04-29
Resent-From: <public-aria-at@w3.org>
Resent-Date: Monday, April 27, 2020 at 10:35 AM


Hello everyone,

Please join us for our call this Wednesday, 2020-04-29.

We will set the agenda at the start of the meeting using issues with the "Agenda+" label<https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3AAgenda%2B> in Github.

Meeting details:

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As always, please let me know if you have any questions.



Michael Fairchild, CPWA<https://www.accessibilityassociation.org/cpwacertification> • Senior Accessibility Consultant

Deque Systems<https://deque.com>