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RE: Pilot test - need volunteers

From: Gunderson, Jon R <jongund@illinois.edu>
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 14:42:43 +0000
To: Simon Pieters <zcorpan@gmail.com>, Sina Bahram <sina@sinabahram.com>
CC: Terrill Thompson <tft@uw.edu>, "public-aria-at@w3.org" <public-aria-at@w3.org>, Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>, "s3th.thompson@gmail.com" <s3th.thompson@gmail.com>, Isaac Durazo <isaac@bocoup.com>
Message-ID: <CH2PR11MB43446206F1FDB08082F70C7AC8D00@CH2PR11MB4344.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
We should also be using ARIA Landmarks:



From: Simon Pieters <zcorpan@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 9:11 AM
To: Sina Bahram <sina@sinabahram.com>
Cc: Terrill Thompson <tft@uw.edu>; public-aria-at@w3.org; Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>; s3th.thompson@gmail.com; Isaac Durazo <isaac@bocoup.com>
Subject: Re: Pilot test - need volunteers

Thank you for the feedback, Sina! I've filed https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/165 to track this. We'll make sure that the new test runner that will replace the prototype is accessible and uses markup properly, but we'd appreciate verification of that when it's ready. :-)

Den tors 23 apr. 2020 kl 17:46 skrev Sina Bahram <sina@sinabahram.com<mailto:sina@sinabahram.com>>:
Thanks for this, and for your work on accessibility. Some initial reactions are below.

When I go to:

it’s just a series of headings, which are also links. Additionally, text that is definitely not a heading, is marked up as such. This is not part of the test, I imagine, but a pretty serious antipattern, and one that’s quite common on sales pages, etc., so even if it’s by implication, it would be good of us not to imply that this is ok. is it possible to make this markup accessible and more semantic? For example, a simple heading followed by a list of links?

Just so you know, it’s noisy/frustrating to use with a screen reader. Also, please note the absence of title, which is a WCAG violation, and makes the tab very verbose as the entire URL is read out upon focus.

The W3C validator helpfully points this missing title issue out:

I went to run tests, and there’s some considerable accessibility issues on these pages, I’m afraid. I’m sorry if I’m flagging things that are already known, but there’s text with tabindex of 0 on it, accessible labels containing role names (I know that’s somewhat unavoidable here, but we can make it far less confusing by not placing the operative nouns at the ends of phrases),  and confusing speech strings like this one, for example:

“Navigate into a checkbox group in interaction mode. checkbox/test-01-navigate-into-checkbox-group-interaction.html check box‑ not checked"

I only had a few minutes to look around, but if I may, this is currently confusing to use with a screen reader at this time and isn’t following some patterns that could really help make it more usable. Starting with valid markup, I think would help alleviate some of the issues, but not all.


again, sorry if all of this is known and changes haven’t been committed yet, etc.

Happy to take another look later on.

Take care,

President, Prime Access Consulting, Inc.
Phone: 919-345-3832

Twitter: @SinaBahram
Personal Website: https://www.sinabahram.com

From: Simon Pieters <zcorpan@gmail.com<mailto:zcorpan@gmail.com>>
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 8:33 AM
To: Sina Bahram <sina@sinabahram.com<mailto:sina@sinabahram.com>>
Cc: Terrill Thompson <tft@uw.edu<mailto:tft@uw.edu>>; public-aria-at@w3.org<mailto:public-aria-at@w3.org>; Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com<mailto:a11ythinker@gmail.com>>; s3th.thompson@gmail.com<mailto:s3th.thompson@gmail.com>; Isaac Durazo <isaac@bocoup.com<mailto:isaac@bocoup.com>>
Subject: Re: Pilot test - need volunteers

Hi, Terrill and Sina,

Den ons 22 apr. 2020 kl 23:56 skrev Terrill Thompson <tft@uw.edu<mailto:tft@uw.edu>>:
Hi All,

Sorry I've been missing in action - a little over my head with commitments at the UW. Are you wanting to keep testing within this group for now, or are you open to recruiting volunteers from the outside?

We thought we'd start with asking within the CG, but if there are others who want to volunteer for this, that would be great! The CG is also open for anyone to join:


Den tors 23 apr. 2020 kl 00:37 skrev Sina Bahram <sina@sinabahram.com<mailto:sina@sinabahram.com>>:

Another question. Are expected results already defined? If so, what is the process in case we may have comments on what the expected results should be?

Sorry for the double-email, but is there an issue where the tests are laid out? Sorry if I’m missing something.

Just wanted to look at the things ahead of time.

The tests are still under development. This project board<https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/projects/1> shows which are in progress. Each card (that isn't in the backlog) links to the corresponding issue, to track progress for that test plan. The issue has a link to the test itself. You can leave comments about the test and expected results in the issue.

The test *runner* that will be used for the pilot test is also under development<https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/wiki/Test-Authorship-and-Test-Runner-Development-Plan#work-stream-21-build-production-system>. The runner that is currently available at https://w3c.github.io/aria-at/ is a prototype, but we'll be using the new runner for the pilot test. For now, you can try out the prototype test runner.

I am willing to cover @jscholes time spent testing with FF/NVDA, and I may be able to test with  Chrome/Jaws, but it would be good to see what this entails, task-wise.

Great, thank you! Don't hesitate to ask questions. :-)

Simon Pieters

Simon Pieters

Received on Friday, 24 April 2020 14:43:04 UTC

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