Re: 7-day CfC: notes on option, treeitem, and spinbutton about children presentational - closes 15 June

Thank you James. Please provide the link. 

Regards,

Rich

> On Jun 20, 2016, at 2:06 PM, James Nurthen <james.nurthen@oracle.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes.
> 
> Children are presentational cannot work for treeitem, menuitem, menuitemcheckbox and menuitemradio.
> 
> These roles are specifically required to have child elements in order to create trees and menus as I detailed in another mail. We cannot add children are presentational to them as it will break every single tree and menu implementation.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> James
> 
> On 6/20/2016 12:01 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
>> I agree with James on the exception for spinbuttons for touch screen devices. 
>> 
>> This went out for CFC last week while I was out on vacation. Other than spinbutton are there any other objections to the rest of this proposal?
>> 
>> Rich
>> 
>>> On Jun 18, 2016, at 4:31 PM, Birkir Gunnarsson <birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com <mailto:birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> "I do not believe interactive widget vs composite widget is the heart
>>> of the issue. For me, the issue is how difficult is it for developers
>>> create structures
>>> with ARIA markup? For authors sake, I would not like to see a
>>> proliferation of roles because the structure content is presentational
>>> vs interactive content
>>> vs complex widget. Hopefully, an author could use a single
>>> recognizable logical role independent of the type of content in the
>>> structure.
>>> "
>>> For me ARIA is primarily for users, not authors.
>>> That being said, I am fine with allowing the plus and minus buttons as
>>> the only non-presentational elements allowed for role="spinbutton".
>>> I am not on board with allowing any other elements.
>>> 
>>> I am not on board allowing non-presentational elements on the option role.
>>> This is the same role used for <option> elements, and users, through
>>> years of interaction with select / option elemetns, have come to
>>> expect them to be presentational.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 6/18/16, James Craig < <mailto:jcraig@apple.com>jcraig@apple.com <mailto:jcraig@apple.com>> wrote:
>>>> Sorry I'm a couple days late responding to this.
>>>> 
>>>> Concerns with making "spinbutton" children presentational:
>>>> I don't think spinbutton's children should be presentational until there is
>>>> a solution for the ARIA's coverage gap wrt operability. As an example, there
>>>> is no good way to make custom sliders accessible on touch screen devices
>>>> because there is no way to trigger the increment/decrement events other than
>>>> through de facto keypress events (this workaround is not sustainable or
>>>> recommended for touch screen interfaces). If the WG makes spinbutton's
>>>> children presentational, the same problem will apply. Author's are currently
>>>> able to make spinbuttons accessible by using descendant stepper buttons that
>>>> are individually operable. (Note: The native stepper buttons on macOS and in
>>>> WebKit are implemented this way.)
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jun 9, 2016, at 6:04 PM, Michael Cooper <cooper@w3.org <mailto:cooper@w3.org>> wrote:
>>>>> This is a Call for Consensus (CfC) to the Accessible Rich Internet
>>>>> Applications (ARIA) Working Group regarding the following resolution of
>>>>> the ARIA Working group:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Add editorial note to option, treeitem, and spinbutton roles that their
>>>>> "children are presentational" status is provisional
>>>>> Background
>>>>> This was approved by the participants of the 9 June 2016 teleconference,
>>>>> and further context is available in the minutes:
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://www.w3.org/2016/06/09-aria-minutes.html#item02 <https://www.w3.org/2016/06/09-aria-minutes.html#item02>
>>>>> <https://www.w3.org/2016/06/09-aria-minutes.html#item02 <https://www.w3.org/2016/06/09-aria-minutes.html#item02>>Note this
>>>>> resolution does not close discussion on the issue of whether these roles
>>>>> ultimately should have the children presentational restriction, or whether
>>>>> further engineering is needed, and if so in what time frame. This edit
>>>>> supports wider review of the topic.
>>>>> Action
>>>>> This CfC is now open for objection, comment, as well as statements of
>>>>> support via email. Silence will be interpreted as support, though messages
>>>>> of support are certainly welcome.
>>>>> If you object to this proposal, or have comments concerning it, please
>>>>> respond by replying on list to this message no later than 23:59 (midnight)
>>>>> Boston Time, Wednesday, 15 June 2016. For objections only, please copy the
>>>>> main  <mailto:aria@w3.org <mailto:aria@w3.org>> <mailto:aria@w3.org>aria@w3.org <mailto:aria@w3.org> < <mailto:aria@w3.org>mailto:aria@w3.org <mailto:aria@w3.org>> list to allow
>>>>> technical discussion of the objection to happen there.
>>>>> Process
>>>>> This CfC is conducted per the ARIA WG decision policy:
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/decision-policy <https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/decision-policy>
>>>>> <https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/decision-policy <https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/decision-policy>>
>>>>> I am issuing this CfC as acting chair, but Rich will record the formal
>>>>> ratification if passed.
>>>>> Michael
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Birkir Gunnarsson, CPACC
>>> Senior Accessibility Subject Matter Expert | Deque Systems
>>> 2121 Cooperative Way, Suite 210
>>> Herndon, VA, 20171
>>> 
>>> Ph: (919) 607-27 53
>>> Twitter: @birkir_gun
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Regards, James
> <oracle_sig_logo.gif> <http://www.oracle.com/>
> James Nurthen | Principal Engineer, Accessibility
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