Re: 7-day CfC: notes on option, treeitem, and spinbutton about children presentational - closes 15 June

I agree with James on the exception for spinbuttons for touch screen devices. 

This went out for CFC last week while I was out on vacation. Other than spinbutton are there any other objections to the rest of this proposal?

Rich

> On Jun 18, 2016, at 4:31 PM, Birkir Gunnarsson <birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com> wrote:
> 
> "I do not believe interactive widget vs composite widget is the heart
> of the issue. For me, the issue is how difficult is it for developers
> create structures
> with ARIA markup? For authors sake, I would not like to see a
> proliferation of roles because the structure content is presentational
> vs interactive content
> vs complex widget. Hopefully, an author could use a single
> recognizable logical role independent of the type of content in the
> structure.
> "
> For me ARIA is primarily for users, not authors.
> That being said, I am fine with allowing the plus and minus buttons as
> the only non-presentational elements allowed for role="spinbutton".
> I am not on board with allowing any other elements.
> 
> I am not on board allowing non-presentational elements on the option role.
> This is the same role used for <option> elements, and users, through
> years of interaction with select / option elemetns, have come to
> expect them to be presentational.
> 
> 
> 
> On 6/18/16, James Craig <jcraig@apple.com <mailto:jcraig@apple.com>> wrote:
>> Sorry I'm a couple days late responding to this.
>> 
>> Concerns with making "spinbutton" children presentational:
>> I don't think spinbutton's children should be presentational until there is
>> a solution for the ARIA's coverage gap wrt operability. As an example, there
>> is no good way to make custom sliders accessible on touch screen devices
>> because there is no way to trigger the increment/decrement events other than
>> through de facto keypress events (this workaround is not sustainable or
>> recommended for touch screen interfaces). If the WG makes spinbutton's
>> children presentational, the same problem will apply. Author's are currently
>> able to make spinbuttons accessible by using descendant stepper buttons that
>> are individually operable. (Note: The native stepper buttons on macOS and in
>> WebKit are implemented this way.)
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 9, 2016, at 6:04 PM, Michael Cooper <cooper@w3.org> wrote:
>>> This is a Call for Consensus (CfC) to the Accessible Rich Internet
>>> Applications (ARIA) Working Group regarding the following resolution of
>>> the ARIA Working group:
>>> 
>>> Add editorial note to option, treeitem, and spinbutton roles that their
>>> "children are presentational" status is provisional
>>> Background
>>> This was approved by the participants of the 9 June 2016 teleconference,
>>> and further context is available in the minutes:
>>> 
>>> https://www.w3.org/2016/06/09-aria-minutes.html#item02
>>> <https://www.w3.org/2016/06/09-aria-minutes.html#item02 <https://www.w3.org/2016/06/09-aria-minutes.html#item02>>Note this
>>> resolution does not close discussion on the issue of whether these roles
>>> ultimately should have the children presentational restriction, or whether
>>> further engineering is needed, and if so in what time frame. This edit
>>> supports wider review of the topic.
>>> Action
>>> This CfC is now open for objection, comment, as well as statements of
>>> support via email. Silence will be interpreted as support, though messages
>>> of support are certainly welcome.
>>> If you object to this proposal, or have comments concerning it, please
>>> respond by replying on list to this message no later than 23:59 (midnight)
>>> Boston Time, Wednesday, 15 June 2016. For objections only, please copy the
>>> main  <mailto:aria@w3.org <mailto:aria@w3.org>>aria@w3.org <mailto:aria@w3.org> <mailto:aria@w3.org <mailto:aria@w3.org>> list to allow
>>> technical discussion of the objection to happen there.
>>> Process
>>> This CfC is conducted per the ARIA WG decision policy:
>>> 
>>> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/decision-policy <https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/decision-policy>
>>> <https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/decision-policy <https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/decision-policy>>
>>> I am issuing this CfC as acting chair, but Rich will record the formal
>>> ratification if passed.
>>> Michael
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Birkir Gunnarsson, CPACC
> Senior Accessibility Subject Matter Expert | Deque Systems
> 2121 Cooperative Way, Suite 210
> Herndon, VA, 20171
> 
> Ph: (919) 607-27 53
> Twitter: @birkir_gun