Re: [AR Standards Discussion] I've created a Related Standards pagefor the group

Hi Neil, Thank you VERY MUCH for this detailed feedback.

I'll make modifications to the page following these suggestions ASAP.

Christine

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On 1/2/13 9:26 PM, Neil Trevett wrote:
> Hi Rob,
>
> http://www.perey.com/ARStandards/existing-standards/
> Nice list.   Some general 'housekeeping level' feedback..
>
> Suggest 'Graphics Standards' -> 'Content Formats'
> MP3 could be moved into this list
> H.264 AVC could be moved to this list
> SVG should be moved to Graphics APIs
> X3D debatably should be moved to Graphics APIs - or in both lists
>
> Suggest new Section - 'Graphics APIs'
> OpenGL ES (native 3D graphics)
> WebGL (JavaScript binding to OpenGL ES for 3D rendering into Canvas)
> SVG
> Canvas
> X3D
>
> Suggest new section 'Media and Audio APIs'
> Audio element
> Video element
> Web Audio?
> MediaStream?
> WebRTC?
> OpenSL ES
> OpenMAX
> Nokia FCAM - I am not sure this is an official standard yet
>
> Hardware Control is left with
> Device API
>
> This will clean up the categories I think and make it more consistent with the W3C lists you mention.  Hope this helps...
>
> Neil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: discussion-bounces@arstandards.org [mailto:discussion-bounces@arstandards.org] On Behalf Of Martin Lechner
> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 12:45 AM
> To: Rob Manson
> Cc: discussion@arstandards.org; public-ar@w3.org
> Subject: Re: [AR Standards Discussion] I've created a Related Standards pagefor the group
>
> Hi Rob,
>
> works for me, thanks.
> Please also link to the SWG public page (http://www.opengeospatial.org/projects/groups/arml2.0swg), it links to the current spec.
>
> Best,
> Martin
>
>
> Am 28.12.2012 03:05, schrieb Rob Manson:
>> Hi Martin,
>>
>> I understand what you're saying but my point was that there are no
>> publicly available js libs that implement ARML2 at the moment which is
>> why I thought it didn't qualify "at the moment".
>>
>> How about I make this compromise.  I'll add a footnote about ARML2 and
>> link to your blog post on your "prototype-AR Window implementation".
>>
>> Hope that works for everyone.
>>
>> roBman
>>
>>
>> On 12/12/12 20:18, Martin Lechner wrote:
>>> Hi Rob, George, et.al!
>>>
>>> sorry for following up a little late here.
>>> Rob, good to see that there's consolidated movement also within the
>>> W3C Community Group now, and that you're taking the lead here!
>>>
>>> My opinion on how ARML2 [1] relates to the W3C Community Group:
>>> While you are right that ARML2 does not have a native implementation
>>> in a browser yet, our prototype-AR Window implementation [1] shows
>>> that it can be implemented in a web browsers plugin-free with web
>>> technologies such as WebGL and the various JS APIs, such as
>>> GeoLocation and DeviceOrientation for the spatial part. The
>>> ComputerVision-Part can also be implemented plugin-free and solely in
>>> JS, as described by a paper of TU Graz [2].
>>>
>>> ARML2 can be seen as the language describing the AR scene, which is
>>> complementary to and uses the APIs the browsers expose. In fact, it
>>> takes a JS library to make ARML2 webbrowser-compliant, rather than a
>>> native implementation in the browser (which of course might bring a
>>> certain speedup eventually, especially in the CV part).
>>> So, to summarize, I ask to include ARML2 in the discussion, and not
>>> cross it off the list because it does not yet run in a native browser.
>>> I'm happy to give more insight on request.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Martin
>>>
>>> [1] - http://www.opengeospatial.org/projects/groups/arml2.0swg
>>> [2] -
>>> http://thenextweb.com/insider/2012/05/16/wikitude-takes-its-augmented
>>> -reality-beyond-apps-and-direct-to-the-mobile-web/
>>>
>>> or http://www.wikitude.com/wikitude-lab-takes-augmented-reality-web
>>> [3] -
>>> http://icg.tugraz.at/publications/natural-feature-tracking-in-javascr
>>> ipt/at_download/file
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 01.12.2012 05:28, schrieb Rob Manson:
>>>> Hi George,
>>>>
>>>>>>> Good to see AR discussion in W3C.
>>>>> ...unless its  a walled garden.
>>>>> You really do not plan to include ARML in "related standards".
>>>> Sorry if it appeared that way...that's definitely not the case. I've
>>>> added this content to the top of the Related Standards page to make
>>>> it a little clearer.
>>>>
>>>>    Here is an overview of the key standards that are enabling the
>>>>    Augmented Web.  The standards listed on this page are capable of
>>>>    running inside some version of a standard web browser from one of the
>>>>    mainstream web browser vendors today.
>>>>
>>>>    NOTE: If you are interested in a broader set of Augmented Reality
>>>>          standards then please view the ARStandards.org list[1].
>>>>
>>>> I hope this helps make sense of the difference between the 2 lists.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> ARML1 was discussed in a prior W3C AR workshop.
>>>> Nothing that happens in this CG mandates any particular action
>>>> anywhere in the W3C.  So there's definitely no impact here.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> ARML2 is going through the OGC process for adoption as an OGC
>>>>> standard.
>>>>> The OGC process requires at least two or more commitments to
>>>>> implementation.
>>>> I'm sure that's the case and what I took away from discussions at
>>>> the ARStandards meeting was that none of these had commenced yet or
>>>> had real plans to in the short term.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> To not consider ARML2 in W3C seems to be a blind spot.
>>>> I'm sure the OGC will continue discussions with the W3C about the
>>>> overlap between all of your standards.  As I said, this CG really
>>>> doesn't have any impact on that.
>>>>
>>>> And I hope it's now clear that I'm not "excluding" ARML...it's just
>>>> that to be included on that Related Standards[2] page a standard
>>>> must have a working implementation in a version of a mainstream web
>>>> browser today.
>>>>
>>>> This is not just some arbitrary decision.  This is directly related
>>>> to the new Charter[3] and I hope that I've been really clear as to
>>>> why this makes sense.
>>>>
>>>> roBman
>>>>
>>>> [1] http://www.perey.com/ARStandards/existing-standards/
>>>> [2] http://www.w3.org/community/ar/related-standards/
>>>> [3] http://www.w3.org/community/ar/wiki/Charter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 25, 2012, at 12:51 PM, Rob Manson <roBman@mob-labs.com
>>>>> <mailto:roBman@mob-labs.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi George,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Good to see AR discussion in W3C. Enjoyed your paper at the AR
>>>>>>> Community meeting.
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Suggest your list of AR standards should add ARML2.
>>>>>> I was going to include it but it doesn't currently have any web
>>>>>> browsers that parse or support it.  So at the moment it can't
>>>>>> currently be classified as an Augmented Web related standard.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The dynamic binding is closer and if somebody implemented a
>>>>>> library that makes this work within one of the mainstream web
>>>>>> browsers then that could change.  But for now I would classify it
>>>>>> as an "AR Standard" and not an "Augmented Web Standard".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW: Have any of the AR Browser Vendors committed to implementing it?
>>>>>>  From memory both Martin and Hafez said that they weren't yet
>>>>>> working on this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> News about  POI WG:
>>>>>>> Ian Jacobs sent a mail to W3C members that the POI WG is closed
>>>>>>> as of September 2012, and that no further progress is foreseen.
>>>>>>> See
>>>>>>> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ac-members/2012JulSep/00
>>>>>>> 61.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (member
>>>>>>> only).
>>>>>>> A "Places" community group
>>>>>>> <http://www.w3.org/community/places/> focusing on representing
>>>>>>> POI in microformats, RDF and JSON has been created. The Open
>>>>>>> Geospatial Consortium <http://www.opengeospatial.org/> is in the
>>>>>>> process of creating a standards working group to standardize the
>>>>>>> POI conceptual data model and XML encoding.
>>>>>> Yep I saw the email about that on the POI WG mailing list.  If any
>>>>>> "Place/Location" based standards based on
>>>>>> microformats/microdata/RDF/JSON please let me know and I'll add
>>>>>> that to the Related Standards list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> roBman
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Discussion mailing list
>>>> Discussion@arstandards.org
>>>> http://arstandards.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion
>>>>
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Received on Wednesday, 2 January 2013 20:51:21 UTC