Re: [XBL] - please remove reference to HTML5

Anne,
Regarding (1): When I look at (http://www.w3.org/TR/xbl/#references), I do
not see anything in this section that says which references are normative
or informative. Contrast this to the DOM3 spec
(http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-3-Core/references.html), which has K.1
Normative References and K.2 Informative References. Therefore, based on
prior text in the spec, that means all of the references in the XBL spec
are normative. Which means there is a normative reference to a WhatWG spec,
which is not appropriate per #2.

Regarding (2):  You say: "Do you have a pointer?" Are you asking for a
pointer to Dean's email (if so, it's earlier in the same thread), or are
you asking for a pointer to the fact that it is inappropriate to include a
normative reference to specs that change at the whim of the authors? If the
latter, sorry, I don't have a pointer, but I expect somewhere in the
standards world somehow has written up something to this effect. It's just
common sense and accepted practice. Without this, the standards world would
have chaos. I can't believe this notion would even be challenged. Instead
of you asking me to provide a pointer to show that this is defined policy,
I ask you to find an approved Recommendation at W3C that makes a normative
reference to a spec that is maintained by an organization without a formal
process or patent policy and what openly says its specs are subject to
change.

Jon

Jon Ferraiolo <jferrai@us.ibm.com>
Web Architect, Emerging Technologies
IBM, Menlo Park, CA
Mobile: +1-650-926-5865



                                                                           
             "Anne van                                                     
             Kesteren"                                                     
             <annevk@opera.com                                          To 
             >                         Jon Ferraiolo/Menlo Park/IBM@IBMUS  
             Sent by:                                                   cc 
             public-appformats         "Dean Jackson" <dino@w3.org>,       
             -request@w3.org           public-appformats@w3.org            
                                                                   Subject 
                                       Re: [XBL] - please remove reference 
             01/10/2007 03:04          to HTML5                            
             PM                                                            
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           





On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:02:52 +0100, Jon Ferraiolo <jferrai@us.ibm.com>
wrote:
> 1) The XBL spec's references section needs to distinguish between
> normative and informative references.

It does.


> 2) Normative references represent an indirect inclusion of a different
> specification. In most cases, it is not appropriate for W3C
> specifications to normatively reference specifications that get changed
> at the whim of the authors and/or which do not have an associated patent

> policy. (I think
> that's the thrust of Dean's email.)

Do you have a pointer?


> 3) It might be OK to reference the HTML5 spec as published by the WhatWG

> as an *informative* reference (particularly as a temporary editing
> solution), but it would be better if the features from the WhatWG's
> HTML5 spec were
> submitted to the W3C, discussed in appropriate W3C working groups for
> possible inclusion in W3C specs, and then have the XBL spec reference the
> relevant W3C specs informatively (or normatively if a required feature in
> XBL is defined within the other W3C spec).

As far as I can tell this is just your opinion. I agree, and I expect it
will happen in due course, but I don't see why the reference would have to

removed for now because of this.


> 4) If there is a need to recognize and congratulate the WhatWG for its
> HTML5 work somehow, then it makes sense to do this recognition within an
> acknowledgements section rather than the main body of the spec or the
> normative part of references section.

That's not what the reference is for.


--
Anne van Kesteren
<http://annevankesteren.nl/>
<http://www.opera.com/>