- From: Matthew Atkinson <matkinson@tpgi.com>
- Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2023 16:04:57 +0000
- To: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>, W3C WAI Accessible Platform Architectures <public-apa@w3.org>
Hi all,
Please find the minutes for today at https://www.w3.org/2023/01/18-apa-minutes.html and below in plain text form for convenience.
Best regards,
Matthew
– DRAFT –
Accessible Platform Architectures (APA) Weekly Teleconference
18 jan 2023
[2]IRC log.
[2] https://www.w3.org/2023/01/18-apa-irc
Attendees
Present
Fredrik, Gottfried, janina, Lionel_Wolberger, matatk,
niklasegger, PaulG, Roy
Regrets
Gottfried, Nadine
Chair
Janina
Scribe
Fredrik, matatk
Contents
1. [3]Agenda Review & Announcements
2. [4]CfC Elevating Maturity Model to Task Force httpS://
www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/maturity-model/
work-statementtatus
3. [5]APA Rechartering https://github.com/w3c/apa/blob/
charter-2023/charter.html
4. [6]Payments Security IG Rechartering https://github.com/
w3c/strategy/issues/365#issuecomment-1379515981
5. [7]APA Rechartering https://github.com/w3c/apa/blob/
charter-2023/charter.html
6. [8]Payments Security IG Rechartering https://github.com/
w3c/strategy/issues/365#issuecomment-1379515981
7. [9]PROPOSED Private Advertising Technology Working Group
https://www.w3.org/2022/08/PROPOSED-PATWG-charter.html
8. [10]Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/
issues
9. [11]CSS Update (Paul) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/
issues
Meeting minutes
Agenda Review & Announcements
CfC Elevating Maturity Model to Task Force [12]httpS://www.w3.org/WAI/
APA/task-forces/maturity-model/work-statementtatus
[12] https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/maturity-model/work-statementtatus
<janina> [13]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rqtf/
2023Jan/0015.html
[13] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rqtf/2023Jan/0015.html
janina: The above is an email from one of the co-facilitators,
explaining why W3C is doing this work. Does this allay your
concerns?
<janina> [14]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rqtf/
2023Jan/0015.html
[14] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rqtf/2023Jan/0015.html
Lionel_Wolberger: I'm involved in this work. I support the
proposed CfC.
<janina> [15]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rqtf/
2023Jan/0015.html
[15] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rqtf/2023Jan/0015.html
janina: Asking differently: anyone opposed to the CfC?
Fredrik: I'd like the CfC.
matatk: I wasn't clear on point 7 in the email; is there
another example? (Not opposed to CfC.)
<PaulG> +1
<PaulG> (support removal of #7)
Fredrik: Maybe best to leave that point out (seems confused,
and technologies change rapidly anyway).
janina: We should ask the MM group to clarify or drop that one.
janina: Others OK with that approach?
+1 (others already +1'd)
APA Rechartering [16]https://github.com/w3c/apa/blob/charter-2023/
charter.html
[16] https://github.com/w3c/apa/blob/charter-2023/charter.html
janina: Nothing changed since last week; still seeking comments
and questions.
Payments Security IG Rechartering [17]https://github.com/w3c/strategy/
issues/365#issuecomment-1379515981
[17] https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/365#issuecomment-1379515981
APA Rechartering [18]https://github.com/w3c/apa/blob/charter-2023/
charter.html
[18] https://github.com/w3c/apa/blob/charter-2023/charter.html
Here's the pretty link: [19]https://raw.githack.com/w3c/apa/
charter-2023/charter.html
[19] https://raw.githack.com/w3c/apa/charter-2023/charter.html
Payments Security IG Rechartering [20]https://github.com/w3c/strategy/
issues/365#issuecomment-1379515981
[20] https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/365#issuecomment-1379515981
janina: Lionel_Wolberger had a look at this, and raised some
issues about UI, and what was included.
… We were invited by WPSIG leadership to join their management
call, which matatk and I did yesterday.
… It was an aha! moment, as they're fully supportive of
accessibility, but are currently working on lower-level things.
There are some things coming up that may need our input, and
they're happy to liaise with us then.
… They are not working on the same things (e.g. wallet UIs) as
Verifiable Credentials. The focus is narrower, specifically on
payments.
… The VC work is less tied to browsers.
… We laid out what we're looking for in the short-term future,
and longer-term aspirations (as per last TPAC).
… Their focus remains on registration-free secure payments,
though there was no objection to our work/aims. There was FIDO
representation there, and they're looking into what process may
be used to liaise with us (membership and IP considerations
ongoing).
… We expect to hear back from them, as there was the desire to
work jointly.
janina: Any considerations/concerns (specifically related to
the charter)?
janina: They said let's get together at TPAC, which reminds
me...
… TPAC will be the 11th to 15th of September, in Seville :-).
janina: Lionel_Wolberger: does this allay any concerns?
Lionel_Wolberger: sounds great; let's make the meetings happen.
PROPOSED Private Advertising Technology Working Group [21]https://
www.w3.org/2022/08/PROPOSED-PATWG-charter.html
[21] https://www.w3.org/2022/08/PROPOSED-PATWG-charter.html
janina: New group being proposed to find a way to allow the
advertisting industry to add adverts to web content, and
collect data from the user without disclosing who they are
(and, one assumes, without disclosing they have a disability -
though that is not explicitly stated).
… We signed off on this group back last May, but I now have
some additional concerns, partly due to the work we did in
Adapt. IIRC we signed off with a caveat, but not sure if that
has been reflected in the draft charter.
… I also have concerns about how we preserve people's
anonymity, or the masking of their disability, or their ability
to read the ads (COGA implications; maybe distracting).
… Some users with disabilities may want to read the ads, but
need an accessible way to do so.
… My list of things that I'd add, if we were looking at this
with perhaps a little more forethought than we did last May,
… would include demarcating where the ad starts and ends. Also,
adding an ad into a page should not do anything to break its
accessibility.
… Do you share these concerns?
Lionel_Wolberger: Sites tend to offer slots in which to place
ads, so the chance of an ad changing the page outside of itself
is unlikely.
… The tendency for ads to slide in/out seems to have stopped.
… However there is something powerful in what you said, which
is that given a page has a certain level of accessibility, we
don't wnat an ad to come in and lower the accessibility.
Lionel_Wolberger: I think this is a concern we could raise
fruitfully.
janina: Could this include a keyboard trap?
Lionel_Wolberger: Actually yes, on reflection, though ads don't
tend to have a lot of keyboard interactivity.
… Today the bane of the web is autoplaying video.
PaulG: Reminds me of the Reporting API conversation at TPAC. I
think this'd be a fantastic use case becuase the brokering is
on-demand. People who have a UA/plugin that reports
accessibility issues within ads, that ad could get downgraded
within the brokering conglomerate. You could have an agreement
with them that you (as a site provider)
<Lionel_Wolberger> +1 to Paul's idea of Reporting API could
report back to the RTB ad-provisioning system
PaulG: only want ads that meet a certain level of
accessibility. Some consideration would be needed wrt
anti-competitive behavior, but this could empower users
(especially e.g. with distracting content).
<Lionel_Wolberger> +1 to "Accessibility Reporting API"
+1 to Paul's ideas!
niklasegger: +1 to all of the above. Just to add something
about videos: it is theoretical possible that the video
displays some flickering content, which is a huge risk to some
people.
janina: Another excellent point.
+1
janina: When we signed off, they went to AC vote, which failed.
They're trying again.
janina: Seems like there are still some votes against the new
charter. We need people who can vote, i.e. AC reps, to make a
formal objection.
janina: I think there are several here who are formal members.
janina: We can then work with this group to close them.
matatk: Privacy concerns: Are we more concerned if people are
for instance using the ADAPT plugin?
janina: We brought it up perhaps in May last year. I'll find it
and post it to list.
<matatk> matatk: +1 again to PaulG's ideas; it's a really
positive way to approach ads.
<matatk> janina: Ads can be fun, and we should have access to
them.
<matatk> janina: Are the bounding boxes for ads semantically
identifiable? Yes?
<matatk> PaulG: They should be marked with a landmark or
something.
<matatk> matatk: Something about marking content, and privacy:
need user to be able to opt out of some types of content, for
health reasons, without giving away PII.
<matatk> janina: The vote is open to February 10. When I find
our previous comment, I'll post that to the list, along with
this date.
<matatk> ... Please reach out to your AC rep to express these
accessibility concerns.
<matatk> matatk: Suggest we work on a comment to give to AC
reps about this.
<matatk> janina: +1; please comment on list
<matatk> Fredrik: +1
<matatk> Lionel_Wolberger: There can be malware in advertising,
with commercial solutions having been devised. This proposed
approach is similar to that. We do have a tall hill to climb.
<matatk> ... There was an article about prior efforts in this
area.
<Lionel_Wolberger> FYI [22]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Evil_bit HT matatk
[22] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_bit
Review Requests [23]https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues
[23] https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues
<matatk> janina: This will become a stock agenda item. It is
not the dashboard, but it's like the dashboard.
<matatk> janina: Whe groups ask for an APA review, that starts
the clock ticking. These requests are formal (and we also
receive via email) and we only have 30 days to respond.
<matatk> janina: The latest one: [24]https://github.com/w3c/
a11y-request/issues/50
[24] https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues/50
<matatk> ... Secure Payment Confirmation 2023-01-11 >
2023-02-01
<matatk> PaulG: They have an accessibility considerations
section.
CSS Update (Paul) [25]https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues
[25] https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues
<matatk> PaulG: I reviewed Web Locks; it's very low-level; fine
to pass on it.
--
Matthew Tylee Atkinson (he/him)
--
Principal Accessibility Engineer
TPG Interactive
https://www.tpgi.com
A Vispero Company
https://www.vispero.com
--
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Received on Wednesday, 18 January 2023 16:05:14 UTC