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APA call minutes 2021-08-04

From: Gottfried Zimmermann \(Lists\) <zimmermann@accesstechnologiesgroup.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2021 19:05:19 +0200
To: "'W3C WAI Accessible Platform Architectures'" <public-apa@w3.org>
Message-ID: <008e01d78952$e8343c60$b89cb520$@accesstechnologiesgroup.com>
HTML format:  <https://www.w3.org/2021/08/04-apa-minutes.html>
https://www.w3.org/2021/08/04-apa-minutes.html

Text format: See below.

 

Summary of action items

1.	 <https://www.w3.org/2021/08/04-apa-minutes.html#a01> paul_grenier
to draft a comment on [css-scrollbars] Add wide value to scrollbar-width,
https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6351
2.	 <https://www.w3.org/2021/08/04-apa-minutes.html#a02> PaulG to draft
a comment on [css-scrollbars] Add wide value to scrollbar-width,
https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6351
3.	 <https://www.w3.org/2021/08/04-apa-minutes.html#a03> FredrikFischer
to review EPUB 3 Text-to-Speech Enhancements 1.0,
https://www.w3.org/TR/epub-tts-10, due in 2 weeks
4.	 <https://www.w3.org/2021/08/04-apa-minutes.html#a04> Lionel to
review the accessibility section in the VISS Best Practices document,
https://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/Best_Practices#Accessibili
ty_.28A11y.29 due 09/04/21

 

Best regards,

Gottfried 

 

___________________________________________________

 Prof. Dr. Gottfried Zimmermann

Access Technologies Group, Germany

___________________________________________________

 

   [1]W3C

 

      [1]  <https://www.w3.org/> https://www.w3.org/

 

                             - DRAFT -

     Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference

 

04 August 2021

 

   [2]IRC log.

 

      [2]  <https://www.w3.org/2021/08/04-apa-irc>
https://www.w3.org/2021/08/04-apa-irc

 

Attendees

 

   Present

          FredrikFischer, Gottfried, janina, JF, Lionel,

          mike_beganyi, paul_grenier

 

   Regrets

          Amy_Carney, Becky_Gibson

 

   Chair

          Janina

 

   Scribe

          Gottfried

 

Contents

 

    1. [3]Agenda Review & Announcements

    2. [4]TPAC Planning  <https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/>
https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/

       TPAC_2021

    3. [5]Task Force Updates

    4. [6]FAST Update

    5. [7]New Charters Review  <https://github.com/w3c/strategy/>
https://github.com/w3c/strategy/

       issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+

       requested%22

    6. [8]A11y Review Comment Tracker  <https://w3c.github.io/>
https://w3c.github.io/

       horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review

    7. [9]new on TR  <http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html>
http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html

    8. [10]Summary of action items

 

Meeting minutes

 

   <FredrikFischer> Would a TPAC topic be a TPIC?

 

   accessibilityFeature property in schema.org CreativeWork class:

   [11] <http://kb.daisy.org/publishing/docs/metadata/schema.org/>
http://kb.daisy.org/publishing/docs/metadata/schema.org/

   accessibilityFeature.html

 

     [11]
<http://kb.daisy.org/publishing/docs/metadata/schema.org/accessibilityFeatur
e.html>
http://kb.daisy.org/publishing/docs/metadata/schema.org/accessibilityFeature
.html

 

  Agenda Review & Announcements

 

   janina: Two CfC are open: Publish XAUR, Comment on PiP spec.

 

  TPAC Planning [12] <https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2021>
https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2021

 

     [12]  <https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2021>
https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2021

 

   janina: Will post proposed meetings on the Wiki. Around 14

   perspective meetings.

   . Will try to combine some of them.

   . Cross-group meetings will be in the first week, starting Oct.

   14.

   . Meeting planned on existing accessibility APIs.

   . Request to persons who have raised comments on this issue.

   Please attend this meeting in the second week.

   . Plan to have a plan for our meetings by next week.

   . We will be reaching out to other groups for joint meetings.

   . Some of the 14 meetings were intended to be break-out

   sessions.

 

  Task Force Updates

 

   janina: RQ - XAUR ready to become a note.

   . Still working on doc: Guidance on how to hold remote meetings

   accessibly.

   . Will also include the experience of the last couple of years.

   . Will have a first public wd by TPAC.

   . Other docs are also on work by RQ.

   . Pronunciation wg also working on github issues.

   . Joint meeting with Coga requested.

 

  FAST Update

 

   MichaelC: Nothing to report.

 

  New Charters Review [13] <https://github.com/w3c/strategy/>
https://github.com/w3c/strategy/

  issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%2

  2

 

     [13]
<https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is:issue+is:open+label:%22Horizont
al+review+requested>
https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is:issue+is:open+label:"Horizontal+
review+requested"

 

   MichaelC: No new charters.

 

  A11y Review Comment Tracker [14] <https://w3c.github.io/>
https://w3c.github.io/

  horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review

 

     [14]
<https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review>
https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review

 

   <MichaelC> [15]https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6351

 

     [15] https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6351

 

   MichaelC: Had already auto, thin and none.

   . Do we care?

 

   Gottfried: Quote: "This could create concerns for users with

   specific accessibility needs."

 

   janina: I think that a braille display would use the wide

   value.

   . The wider the scrollbar the better.

 

   paul_grenier: The wide value controls the scroll bar.

 

   paul_grenier: Accessibility concern is that the none option

   removes the scroll bar, and only mouse users can scroll.

   . Maybe voice control would work.

 

   Lionel: So one perceptual element is eliminated - that's the

   concern.

 

   paul_grenier: It is recommended if using "none", other ways of

   scrolling should be provided.

 

   Gottfried: Could the "wide" value being added be an a11y issue

   as well? E.g. for high zoom factors.

 

   paul_grenier: "wide" could be overridden by a user style sheet.

   . If "thin" is not a concern - why would "wide" be?

   . "none" has to have big warning signs.

 

   JF: They are specifying "auto" without defining what it means.

   . We should provide feedback that "auto" should be defined.

 

   janina: We should create a comment about "auto".

 

   <JF> the scroll bar should zoom at the same degree as the

   on-screen content

 

   paul_grenier: If "auto" is meant to vary between sizes, what

   does it mean when the user zoomes?

   . If authors want to define break points for the size of the

   scrollbar, go for it.

 

   <Lionel> A+

 

   <Lionel> a+

 

   <Lionel> a+

 

   JF: "auto" should mean that the scrollbar should grow at the

   same pace as the font size.

 

   paul_grenier: Could even be a user-selected setting.

   . As a keyboard user, i don't need a larger target for the

   scrollbar.

   . Let browsers get some experience with it, then define it.

 

   JF: We should give feedback of the ways this could be

   interpreted. And ask them for clarification.

 

   paul_grenier: Browser manufacturers should drive this.

 

   Lionel: Two things: 1. Definition of "auto" is missing.

   . 2. Alternative method for scrolling should be offered when

   the scrollbar is not displayed.

 

   paul_grenier: If nobody else wants this, i can take it.

 

   Action: paul_grenier to draft a comment on [css-scrollbars] Add

   wide value to scrollbar-width, [16] <https://github.com/w3c/>
https://github.com/w3c/

   csswg-drafts/issues/6351

 

     [16]  <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6351>
https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6351

 

   <trackbot> Error finding 'paul_grenier'. You can review and

   register nicknames at <[17] <https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/>
https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/

   users>.

 

     [17]  <https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/users>
https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/users

 

   Action: PaulG to draft a comment on [css-scrollbars] Add wide

   value to scrollbar-width, [18] <https://github.com/w3c/>
https://github.com/w3c/

   csswg-drafts/issues/6351

 

     [18]  <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6351>
https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6351

 

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2301 - Draft a comment on

   [css-scrollbars] add wide value to scrollbar-width,

   [19] <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6351>
https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6351 [on Paul

   Grenier - due 2021-08-11].

 

     [19]  <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6351>
https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6351

 

  new on TR [20] <http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html>
http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html

 

     [20]  <http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html>
http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html

 

   <MichaelC> [21]CSS Fonts Module Level 5

 

     [21]  <https://www.w3.org/TR/css-fonts-5/>
https://www.w3.org/TR/css-fonts-5/

 

   MichaelC: We might want to review this one.

 

   janina: Ian here?

   . What was our concern?

 

   MichaelC: Emojis... A lot of discussion.

   . Paul could start with review of level 5 and then go up.

 

   paul_grenier: Is there a link to the changes?

 

   MichaelC: [22]https://www.w3.org/TR/

   css-fonts-5/#changes-20210629

 

    [22]  <https://www.w3.org/TR/css-fonts-5/#changes-20210629>
https://www.w3.org/TR/css-fonts-5/#changes-20210629

 

   MichaelC: Level 4 is still in WD.

   . Best to complete the comments on level 4 first.

 

   <MichaelC> [23]EPUB 3 Text-to-Speech Enhancements 1.0

 

     [23]  <https://www.w3.org/TR/epub-tts-10/>
https://www.w3.org/TR/epub-tts-10/

 

   janina: Could be of some interest to pronunciation tf.

 

   MichaelC: We should talk with pronunciation about this

 

   paul_grenier: The old colon-namespace is not the model we are

   going for.

   . I or Markku Hakkinen could address it

   . They should better diverge from the XML namespacing.

 

   MichaelC: It is a WG note currently.

   . Not clear why they picked a different notation.

   . Let's all sync up our proposals.

   . Maybe they are not aware of the status of an "official note".

 

   JF: They are talking about stand-alone reading systems, not

   necessarily a full-blown screenreader.

   . I agree we got a better solution from the pronunciation tf.

   . We can try and win them for our solution.

 

   MichaelC: Browsers will not support two approaches.

 

   JF: Thorium will read the page out loud.

 

   <JF> [24] <https://www.edrlab.org/software/thorium-reader/>
https://www.edrlab.org/software/thorium-reader/

 

     [24]  <https://www.edrlab.org/software/thorium-reader/>
https://www.edrlab.org/software/thorium-reader/

 

   FredrikFischer: Agree with John. We should try to get them use

   the solution by pron tf.

 

   <JF> +1 to Janina

 

   MichaelC: We should try to do something about notes. This

   should be just a note, not a "normative note".

 

   janina: I am concerned about the discrepancy between EPUB and

   our pron tf.

 

   <FredrikFischer> What's the difference between a

   recommendationand a normative note other than the normative

   note having a somewhat less grueling review process?

 

   janina: On our planned agenda for TPAC, we wanted to talk about

   schemas.

   . We should add this to the agenda.

 

   Action: FredrikFischer to review EPUB 3 Text-to-Speech

   Enhancements 1.0, [25] <https://www.w3.org/TR/epub-tts-10>
https://www.w3.org/TR/epub-tts-10, due in

   2 weeks

 

     [25]  <https://www.w3.org/TR/epub-tts-10>
https://www.w3.org/TR/epub-tts-10,

 

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2302 - Review epub 3 text-to-speech

   enhancements 1.0, [26] <https://www.w3.org/tr/epub-tts-10>
https://www.w3.org/tr/epub-tts-10, due in

   2 weeks [on Fredrik Fischer - due 2021-08-11].

 

     [26]  <https://www.w3.org/tr/epub-tts-10>
https://www.w3.org/tr/epub-tts-10,

 

   ACTION-2302 due 08/18/21

 

   <trackbot> Set ACTION-2302 Review epub 3 text-to-speech

   enhancements 1.0, [27] <https://www.w3.org/tr/epub-tts-10>
https://www.w3.org/tr/epub-tts-10, due in

   2 weeks due date to 2021-08-18.

 

     [27]  <https://www.w3.org/tr/epub-tts-10>
https://www.w3.org/tr/epub-tts-10,

 

   <MichaelC> [28]VISS version 2 - Core

 

     [28]  <https://www.w3.org/TR/viss2-core/>
https://www.w3.org/TR/viss2-core/

 

   janina: Scoping in automotive is not really related to

   accessibility

 

   MichaelC: Next one is on transport. We can probably ignore

   that.

 

   JF: Is messaging a concern for us?

 

   janina: It is about temperature etc.

   . Android auto seems to be the choice for the car dashboard.

 

   JF: Section 6 has a subsection on privacy.

   . At a minimum, we should have a statement on accessibility.

   "In terms of messaging, avoid a single modality".

 

   janina: I don't think this is much about output for the

   dashboard. This is about datapoints.

 

   JF: In-vehicle application best pratices.

   . We should look more into this spec. Also talk about

   accessibility in the same way as for privacy.

 

   Lionel: This might just be a best-practices of data handling.

 

   <JF> [29] <https://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/>
https://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/

   Best_Practices#Accessibility_.28A11y.29

 

     [29]
<https://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/Best_Practices#Accessibil
ity_.28A11y.29>
https://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/Best_Practices#Accessibili
ty_.28A11y.29

 

   JF: At a minimum, we should review what they have on

   accessibility in [30] <https://www.w3.org/community/>
https://www.w3.org/community/

   autowebplatform/wiki/Best_Practices.

 

     [30]
<https://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/Best_Practices>
https://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/Best_Practices.

 

   janina: Difficult to get accessibility in because of the way

   this spec has been scoped.

   . They say accessibility is out of scope for those specs that

   are under w3c.

 

   JF: They make this a non-normative requirement.

   . Somebody should really review this accessibility section.

 

   Lionel: I am interested.

 

   Action: Lionel to review the accessibility section in the VISS

   Best Practices document, [31] <https://www.w3.org/community/>
https://www.w3.org/community/

   autowebplatform/wiki/Best_Practices#Accessibility_.28A11y.29

   due 09/04/21

 

     [31]
<https://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/Best_Practices#Accessibil
ity_.28A11y.29>
https://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/Best_Practices#Accessibili
ty_.28A11y.29

 

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2303 - Review the accessibility

   section in the viss best practices document, [32]https://

    <http://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/>
www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/

   best_practices#accessibility_.28a11y.29 due 09/04/21 [on Lionel

   Wolberger - due 2021-08-11].

 

     [32]
<https://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/best_practices#accessibil
ity_.28a11y.29>
https://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/best_practices#accessibili
ty_.28a11y.29

 

   ACTION-2030 due 09/04/21

 

   <trackbot> Set ACTION-2030 See if reporting api 1 [33]https://

    <http://www.w3.org/tr/reporting-1/> www.w3.org/tr/reporting-1/ has
applicability to a11y policy

   reporting due date to 2021-09-04.

 

     [33]  <https://www.w3.org/tr/reporting-1/>
https://www.w3.org/tr/reporting-1/

 

   janina: Meeting adjourned

   . Thanks everyone

 

Summary of action items

 

    1. [34]paul_grenier to draft a comment on [css-scrollbars] Add

       wide value to scrollbar-width,  <https://github.com/w3c/>
https://github.com/w3c/

       csswg-drafts/issues/6351

    2. [35]PaulG to draft a comment on [css-scrollbars] Add wide

       value to scrollbar-width,  <https://github.com/w3c/>
https://github.com/w3c/

       csswg-drafts/issues/6351

    3. [36]FredrikFischer to review EPUB 3 Text-to-Speech

       Enhancements 1.0,  <https://www.w3.org/TR/epub-tts-10>
https://www.w3.org/TR/epub-tts-10, due in

       2 weeks

    4. [37]Lionel to review the accessibility section in the VISS

       Best Practices document,  <https://www.w3.org/community/>
https://www.w3.org/community/

       autowebplatform/wiki/

       Best_Practices#Accessibility_.28A11y.29 due 09/04/21

 

 

    Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by

    [38]scribe.perl version 136 (Thu May 27 13:50:24 2021 UTC).

 

     [38]  <https://w3c.github.io/scribe2/scribedoc.html>
https://w3c.github.io/scribe2/scribedoc.html

 

Diagnostics

 

   Succeeded: s/wg/tf

 

   Maybe present: MichaelC

 
Received on Wednesday, 4 August 2021 17:05:39 UTC

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