- From: Gottfried Zimmermann \(Lists\) <zimmermann@accesstechnologiesgroup.com>
- Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2021 19:05:19 +0200
- To: "'W3C WAI Accessible Platform Architectures'" <public-apa@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <008e01d78952$e8343c60$b89cb520$@accesstechnologiesgroup.com>
HTML format: <https://www.w3.org/2021/08/04-apa-minutes.html>
https://www.w3.org/2021/08/04-apa-minutes.html
Text format: See below.
Summary of action items
1. <https://www.w3.org/2021/08/04-apa-minutes.html#a01> paul_grenier
to draft a comment on [css-scrollbars] Add wide value to scrollbar-width,
https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6351
2. <https://www.w3.org/2021/08/04-apa-minutes.html#a02> PaulG to draft
a comment on [css-scrollbars] Add wide value to scrollbar-width,
https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6351
3. <https://www.w3.org/2021/08/04-apa-minutes.html#a03> FredrikFischer
to review EPUB 3 Text-to-Speech Enhancements 1.0,
https://www.w3.org/TR/epub-tts-10, due in 2 weeks
4. <https://www.w3.org/2021/08/04-apa-minutes.html#a04> Lionel to
review the accessibility section in the VISS Best Practices document,
https://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/Best_Practices#Accessibili
ty_.28A11y.29 due 09/04/21
Best regards,
Gottfried
___________________________________________________
Prof. Dr. Gottfried Zimmermann
Access Technologies Group, Germany
___________________________________________________
[1]W3C
[1] <https://www.w3.org/> https://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
04 August 2021
[2]IRC log.
[2] <https://www.w3.org/2021/08/04-apa-irc>
https://www.w3.org/2021/08/04-apa-irc
Attendees
Present
FredrikFischer, Gottfried, janina, JF, Lionel,
mike_beganyi, paul_grenier
Regrets
Amy_Carney, Becky_Gibson
Chair
Janina
Scribe
Gottfried
Contents
1. [3]Agenda Review & Announcements
2. [4]TPAC Planning <https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/>
https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/
TPAC_2021
3. [5]Task Force Updates
4. [6]FAST Update
5. [7]New Charters Review <https://github.com/w3c/strategy/>
https://github.com/w3c/strategy/
issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+
requested%22
6. [8]A11y Review Comment Tracker <https://w3c.github.io/>
https://w3c.github.io/
horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review
7. [9]new on TR <http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html>
http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
8. [10]Summary of action items
Meeting minutes
<FredrikFischer> Would a TPAC topic be a TPIC?
accessibilityFeature property in schema.org CreativeWork class:
[11] <http://kb.daisy.org/publishing/docs/metadata/schema.org/>
http://kb.daisy.org/publishing/docs/metadata/schema.org/
accessibilityFeature.html
[11]
<http://kb.daisy.org/publishing/docs/metadata/schema.org/accessibilityFeatur
e.html>
http://kb.daisy.org/publishing/docs/metadata/schema.org/accessibilityFeature
.html
Agenda Review & Announcements
janina: Two CfC are open: Publish XAUR, Comment on PiP spec.
TPAC Planning [12] <https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2021>
https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2021
[12] <https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2021>
https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2021
janina: Will post proposed meetings on the Wiki. Around 14
perspective meetings.
. Will try to combine some of them.
. Cross-group meetings will be in the first week, starting Oct.
14.
. Meeting planned on existing accessibility APIs.
. Request to persons who have raised comments on this issue.
Please attend this meeting in the second week.
. Plan to have a plan for our meetings by next week.
. We will be reaching out to other groups for joint meetings.
. Some of the 14 meetings were intended to be break-out
sessions.
Task Force Updates
janina: RQ - XAUR ready to become a note.
. Still working on doc: Guidance on how to hold remote meetings
accessibly.
. Will also include the experience of the last couple of years.
. Will have a first public wd by TPAC.
. Other docs are also on work by RQ.
. Pronunciation wg also working on github issues.
. Joint meeting with Coga requested.
FAST Update
MichaelC: Nothing to report.
New Charters Review [13] <https://github.com/w3c/strategy/>
https://github.com/w3c/strategy/
issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%2
2
[13]
<https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is:issue+is:open+label:%22Horizont
al+review+requested>
https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is:issue+is:open+label:"Horizontal+
review+requested"
MichaelC: No new charters.
A11y Review Comment Tracker [14] <https://w3c.github.io/>
https://w3c.github.io/
horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review
[14]
<https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review>
https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review
<MichaelC> [15]https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6351
[15] https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6351
MichaelC: Had already auto, thin and none.
. Do we care?
Gottfried: Quote: "This could create concerns for users with
specific accessibility needs."
janina: I think that a braille display would use the wide
value.
. The wider the scrollbar the better.
paul_grenier: The wide value controls the scroll bar.
paul_grenier: Accessibility concern is that the none option
removes the scroll bar, and only mouse users can scroll.
. Maybe voice control would work.
Lionel: So one perceptual element is eliminated - that's the
concern.
paul_grenier: It is recommended if using "none", other ways of
scrolling should be provided.
Gottfried: Could the "wide" value being added be an a11y issue
as well? E.g. for high zoom factors.
paul_grenier: "wide" could be overridden by a user style sheet.
. If "thin" is not a concern - why would "wide" be?
. "none" has to have big warning signs.
JF: They are specifying "auto" without defining what it means.
. We should provide feedback that "auto" should be defined.
janina: We should create a comment about "auto".
<JF> the scroll bar should zoom at the same degree as the
on-screen content
paul_grenier: If "auto" is meant to vary between sizes, what
does it mean when the user zoomes?
. If authors want to define break points for the size of the
scrollbar, go for it.
<Lionel> A+
<Lionel> a+
<Lionel> a+
JF: "auto" should mean that the scrollbar should grow at the
same pace as the font size.
paul_grenier: Could even be a user-selected setting.
. As a keyboard user, i don't need a larger target for the
scrollbar.
. Let browsers get some experience with it, then define it.
JF: We should give feedback of the ways this could be
interpreted. And ask them for clarification.
paul_grenier: Browser manufacturers should drive this.
Lionel: Two things: 1. Definition of "auto" is missing.
. 2. Alternative method for scrolling should be offered when
the scrollbar is not displayed.
paul_grenier: If nobody else wants this, i can take it.
Action: paul_grenier to draft a comment on [css-scrollbars] Add
wide value to scrollbar-width, [16] <https://github.com/w3c/>
https://github.com/w3c/
csswg-drafts/issues/6351
[16] <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6351>
https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6351
<trackbot> Error finding 'paul_grenier'. You can review and
register nicknames at <[17] <https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/>
https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/
users>.
[17] <https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/users>
https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/users
Action: PaulG to draft a comment on [css-scrollbars] Add wide
value to scrollbar-width, [18] <https://github.com/w3c/>
https://github.com/w3c/
csswg-drafts/issues/6351
[18] <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6351>
https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6351
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2301 - Draft a comment on
[css-scrollbars] add wide value to scrollbar-width,
[19] <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6351>
https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6351 [on Paul
Grenier - due 2021-08-11].
[19] <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6351>
https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6351
new on TR [20] <http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html>
http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
[20] <http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html>
http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
<MichaelC> [21]CSS Fonts Module Level 5
[21] <https://www.w3.org/TR/css-fonts-5/>
https://www.w3.org/TR/css-fonts-5/
MichaelC: We might want to review this one.
janina: Ian here?
. What was our concern?
MichaelC: Emojis... A lot of discussion.
. Paul could start with review of level 5 and then go up.
paul_grenier: Is there a link to the changes?
MichaelC: [22]https://www.w3.org/TR/
css-fonts-5/#changes-20210629
[22] <https://www.w3.org/TR/css-fonts-5/#changes-20210629>
https://www.w3.org/TR/css-fonts-5/#changes-20210629
MichaelC: Level 4 is still in WD.
. Best to complete the comments on level 4 first.
<MichaelC> [23]EPUB 3 Text-to-Speech Enhancements 1.0
[23] <https://www.w3.org/TR/epub-tts-10/>
https://www.w3.org/TR/epub-tts-10/
janina: Could be of some interest to pronunciation tf.
MichaelC: We should talk with pronunciation about this
paul_grenier: The old colon-namespace is not the model we are
going for.
. I or Markku Hakkinen could address it
. They should better diverge from the XML namespacing.
MichaelC: It is a WG note currently.
. Not clear why they picked a different notation.
. Let's all sync up our proposals.
. Maybe they are not aware of the status of an "official note".
JF: They are talking about stand-alone reading systems, not
necessarily a full-blown screenreader.
. I agree we got a better solution from the pronunciation tf.
. We can try and win them for our solution.
MichaelC: Browsers will not support two approaches.
JF: Thorium will read the page out loud.
<JF> [24] <https://www.edrlab.org/software/thorium-reader/>
https://www.edrlab.org/software/thorium-reader/
[24] <https://www.edrlab.org/software/thorium-reader/>
https://www.edrlab.org/software/thorium-reader/
FredrikFischer: Agree with John. We should try to get them use
the solution by pron tf.
<JF> +1 to Janina
MichaelC: We should try to do something about notes. This
should be just a note, not a "normative note".
janina: I am concerned about the discrepancy between EPUB and
our pron tf.
<FredrikFischer> What's the difference between a
recommendationand a normative note other than the normative
note having a somewhat less grueling review process?
janina: On our planned agenda for TPAC, we wanted to talk about
schemas.
. We should add this to the agenda.
Action: FredrikFischer to review EPUB 3 Text-to-Speech
Enhancements 1.0, [25] <https://www.w3.org/TR/epub-tts-10>
https://www.w3.org/TR/epub-tts-10, due in
2 weeks
[25] <https://www.w3.org/TR/epub-tts-10>
https://www.w3.org/TR/epub-tts-10,
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2302 - Review epub 3 text-to-speech
enhancements 1.0, [26] <https://www.w3.org/tr/epub-tts-10>
https://www.w3.org/tr/epub-tts-10, due in
2 weeks [on Fredrik Fischer - due 2021-08-11].
[26] <https://www.w3.org/tr/epub-tts-10>
https://www.w3.org/tr/epub-tts-10,
ACTION-2302 due 08/18/21
<trackbot> Set ACTION-2302 Review epub 3 text-to-speech
enhancements 1.0, [27] <https://www.w3.org/tr/epub-tts-10>
https://www.w3.org/tr/epub-tts-10, due in
2 weeks due date to 2021-08-18.
[27] <https://www.w3.org/tr/epub-tts-10>
https://www.w3.org/tr/epub-tts-10,
<MichaelC> [28]VISS version 2 - Core
[28] <https://www.w3.org/TR/viss2-core/>
https://www.w3.org/TR/viss2-core/
janina: Scoping in automotive is not really related to
accessibility
MichaelC: Next one is on transport. We can probably ignore
that.
JF: Is messaging a concern for us?
janina: It is about temperature etc.
. Android auto seems to be the choice for the car dashboard.
JF: Section 6 has a subsection on privacy.
. At a minimum, we should have a statement on accessibility.
"In terms of messaging, avoid a single modality".
janina: I don't think this is much about output for the
dashboard. This is about datapoints.
JF: In-vehicle application best pratices.
. We should look more into this spec. Also talk about
accessibility in the same way as for privacy.
Lionel: This might just be a best-practices of data handling.
<JF> [29] <https://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/>
https://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/
Best_Practices#Accessibility_.28A11y.29
[29]
<https://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/Best_Practices#Accessibil
ity_.28A11y.29>
https://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/Best_Practices#Accessibili
ty_.28A11y.29
JF: At a minimum, we should review what they have on
accessibility in [30] <https://www.w3.org/community/>
https://www.w3.org/community/
autowebplatform/wiki/Best_Practices.
[30]
<https://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/Best_Practices>
https://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/Best_Practices.
janina: Difficult to get accessibility in because of the way
this spec has been scoped.
. They say accessibility is out of scope for those specs that
are under w3c.
JF: They make this a non-normative requirement.
. Somebody should really review this accessibility section.
Lionel: I am interested.
Action: Lionel to review the accessibility section in the VISS
Best Practices document, [31] <https://www.w3.org/community/>
https://www.w3.org/community/
autowebplatform/wiki/Best_Practices#Accessibility_.28A11y.29
due 09/04/21
[31]
<https://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/Best_Practices#Accessibil
ity_.28A11y.29>
https://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/Best_Practices#Accessibili
ty_.28A11y.29
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2303 - Review the accessibility
section in the viss best practices document, [32]https://
<http://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/>
www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/
best_practices#accessibility_.28a11y.29 due 09/04/21 [on Lionel
Wolberger - due 2021-08-11].
[32]
<https://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/best_practices#accessibil
ity_.28a11y.29>
https://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/best_practices#accessibili
ty_.28a11y.29
ACTION-2030 due 09/04/21
<trackbot> Set ACTION-2030 See if reporting api 1 [33]https://
<http://www.w3.org/tr/reporting-1/> www.w3.org/tr/reporting-1/ has
applicability to a11y policy
reporting due date to 2021-09-04.
[33] <https://www.w3.org/tr/reporting-1/>
https://www.w3.org/tr/reporting-1/
janina: Meeting adjourned
. Thanks everyone
Summary of action items
1. [34]paul_grenier to draft a comment on [css-scrollbars] Add
wide value to scrollbar-width, <https://github.com/w3c/>
https://github.com/w3c/
csswg-drafts/issues/6351
2. [35]PaulG to draft a comment on [css-scrollbars] Add wide
value to scrollbar-width, <https://github.com/w3c/>
https://github.com/w3c/
csswg-drafts/issues/6351
3. [36]FredrikFischer to review EPUB 3 Text-to-Speech
Enhancements 1.0, <https://www.w3.org/TR/epub-tts-10>
https://www.w3.org/TR/epub-tts-10, due in
2 weeks
4. [37]Lionel to review the accessibility section in the VISS
Best Practices document, <https://www.w3.org/community/>
https://www.w3.org/community/
autowebplatform/wiki/
Best_Practices#Accessibility_.28A11y.29 due 09/04/21
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by
[38]scribe.perl version 136 (Thu May 27 13:50:24 2021 UTC).
[38] <https://w3c.github.io/scribe2/scribedoc.html>
https://w3c.github.io/scribe2/scribedoc.html
Diagnostics
Succeeded: s/wg/tf
Maybe present: MichaelC
Received on Wednesday, 4 August 2021 17:05:39 UTC