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Re: AOM with APA at TPAC?

From: Léonie Watson <lw@tetralogical.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2019 19:22:48 +0100
To: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>, Alice Boxhall <aboxhall@google.com>, James Craig <jcraig@apple.com>
Cc: W3C WAI Accessible Platform Architectures <public-apa@w3.org>, public-rqtf@w3.org
Message-ID: <6d3f9246-3340-7c03-bea9-7da86b86bbd6@tetralogical.com>

On 08/09/2019 11:07, Janina Sajka wrote:
> 1.) is existing AOM and API architecture suitable for immersive Web or
> should AOM just be restricted to Web Components?

The AOM isn't intended to be restricted to Web Components. As far as 
it's been implemented, it can already be used anywhere ARIA can be applied.

One of the future phases of the AOM intends to introduce the ability to 
add virtual nodes to the accessibility tree in the browser. These 
virtual nodes need not have a corresponding node in the DOM tree.

One of the use cases for this phase, is the ability to create a virtual 
branch of the accessibility tree for the purpose of providing 
accessibility semantics for things like the <canvas> element, which is 
where the AOM may well be particularly useful to the WebXR space.

Léonie.

> 
> 2.) Do we need bi-directionality for good XR support? Semantics can be
> consumed by user agents but may be modified in an imersive environment
> and change as interactions are happening. Like React is data driven, XR
> semantics may be interaction or results driven.
> 
> 3.) What would be the ideal architecture to support XR accessibility? We
> seem to be currently aiming at patching XR with current and even legacy
> AT, so that architecture may be temporary, or move away from browser and
> API interactions towards AT being embedded in an immersive environment.
> What does "good" look like in this situation?
> 
> 4) Are Object Oriented approaches to accessible XR preferable to
> declarative or author applied semantics?
> 
> Please confirm whether 11:00 Thursday works.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing you both in Fukuoka,
> 
> Janina
> 
>> Alice Boxhall writes:
>>> On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 6:02 AM James Craig <jcraig@apple.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 10:31 AM, Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Alice, James:
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm sending this note to ask for an hour or so of your time at TPAC for
>>>>> a meeting with APA regarding AOM. I'm aware you're also meeting with
>>>>> ARIA earlier in the week, but I'd like to take our conversation in a
>>>>> somewhat different direction, and hope you would be available for that.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would propose 11:00-Noon on Thursday. Let me know whether that works,
>>>>> or some alternate suggestions.
>>>>>
>>>>> One of our top concerns this year is the emergence of XR. Our Research
>>>>> Questions Task Force has been exploring[1]1 some of the opportunities and
>>>>> challenges afforded by augmented and virtual reality technology, and
>>>>> we'd like to understand how AOM might fit into the XR stack.
>>>>
>>>> I’m open to meeting with a clearly defined agenda. Generalities of XR
>>>> seems too broad for a productive APA discussion IMO. If there are specific
>>>> proposals for changes or API, that’s something to discuss.
>>>>
>>>
>>> We could talk about use cases for virtual accessibility nodes?
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Another topic is the resurgent interest in developing a CSS-AAM.
>>>>
>>>> CSS-AAM seems proposed as a solution to an ill-defined problem. I’m still
>>>> uncertain that mapping document is the right solution for CSS.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I would be more interested in fleshing out a shared understanding of
>>> the relationship
>>> between the DOM tree, the block model and the accessibility tree
>>> <https://github.com/WICG/aom/blob/gh-pages/accessibility-tree.md>. There
>>> was a lot of interest in this idea last year, but then I dropped the ball
>>> on pushing it forward.
>>>
>>> I think that would go a long way towards helping spec authors understand
>>> how their proposals will affect assistive technologies, and helping page
>>> authors understand how the code they write will be translated into the
>>> accessibility tree.
>>>
>>> As I mentioned when I withdrew from APA, I had much more success working on
>>>> CSS accessibility directly from inside the CSS WG than from the external
>>>> APA group. I can attest that Alice has also had a lot of success getting
>>>> accessibility features added to the specs by working directly within the
>>>> scope of those working groups.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Right; for better or worse, the CSS group really has its own way of doing
>>> things, which doesn't easily lend itself to casual participation.
>>>
>>>
>>>> For the APA’s issues with CSS, I'd suggest developing a concrete list of
>>>> problems and filing them as individual issues to the CSS tracker. For
>>>> example, there is already language in flexbox for how CSS should affect AT
>>>> order. It’s flawed, but possible to address with follow-up issues.
>>>>
>>>> https://drafts.csswg.org/css-flexbox/#order-accessibility
>>>
>>>
>>> Unfortunately this seems like a counter-example; folks have long been
>>> trying to persuade CSSWG to allow flex order to apply to focus and
>>> accessibility order.
>>>
>>> There are also some existing issues that relate to accessibility in some
>>>> way.
>>>>
>>>> Sequential navigation for example:
>>>> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/3377
>>>>
>>>> Good luck,
>>>> James
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> What that might cover is not yet defined in a document, but it seems
>>>>> reasonable to me it could be most powerful if it could be tied to OS
>>>>> services through the AOM. I think this would be a good time to explore
>>>>> what might be reasonably possible.
>>>>>
>>>>> I expect there will be a few additions, so hope you can be available for
>>>>> a joint conversation. It would definitely benefit APA to have a
>>>>> conversation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>> Janina
>>>>>
>>>>> [1]
>>>> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/research-questions/wiki/Main_Page#XR_.28Augmented.2FVirtual_Reality.29_Accessibility_and_Associated_Issues
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Janina Sajka
>>>>>
>>>>> Linux Foundation Fellow
>>>>> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:     http://a11y.org
>>>>>
>>>>> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
>>>>> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures      http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> Janina Sajka
>>
>> Linux Foundation Fellow
>> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:	http://a11y.org
>>
>> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
>> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures	http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
>>
> 

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Received on Sunday, 8 September 2019 18:23:18 UTC

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