Draft minutes from 13 July

Minutes from the APA teleconference of 13 July are provided below as text, and
are available as hypertext at:



                                                                                   - DRAFT -

                                                        Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference

13 Jul 2016

   See also: IRC log


          Michiel_Bijl, Janina, Joanmarie_Diggs, MichaelC, JF, ShaneM, LJWatson, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, fesch

          Gottfried, Michiel




     * Topics
         1. preview agenda with items from two minutes
         2. Epub A11y Specs http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jul/0017.html
         3. preview agenda with items from two minutes
         4. TPAC 2016 Planning
         5. Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/products/8
         6. new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
         7. Action-2046 CSS, CSS-AAM & TF http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jul/0018.html
     * Summary of Action Items
     * Summary of Resolutions

preview agenda with items from two minutes

   <scribe> scribenick: LJWatson

   JS: Any news?

Epub A11y Specs http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jul/0017.html

   JS: Request to look at ePub specs.
   ... Not something we'd typically do in APA.
   ... With IDPF likely to join W3C, this seems like something we should do though.

preview agenda with items from two minutes

TPAC 2016 Planning

   JS: We have a wiki with our potential agenda.
   ... Expecting a fair amount of cross-WG meetings.

   RS: The COGA TF would like to meet.

   <cyns> can someone put in the url for the wiki

   RS: Was thinking of Tuesday and Thursday, because the TF has requested a two hour block.

   JS: Think a joint ARIA/APA meeting might be an idea, possibly with WCAG too.

Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/products/8


   <trackbot> action-2069 -- Janina Sajka to Follow up on http://www.w3.org/tr/media-source/ media source extensions -- due 2016-07-13 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2069

   JS: No progress.


   <trackbot> action-2067 -- Janina Sajka to Draft comment on https://www.w3.org/tr/css-color-4/ css color module level 4 requesting a11y impacts section particularly
   with transparency and impacts on color contrast measurement -- due 2016-07-13 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2067

   <cyns> TPAC wiki: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2016

   JS: Would like to pass this on. Don't feel best qualified to do it.

   CS: Looked at this action, and not sure it's relevant.

   JS: We wanted them to be mindful of contrast and point to relevant WCAG techs, and the same for transparencies.

   CS: Needs WCAG techs? Can add to the other CSS activities.

   JS: Yes, or if not new techs then pointers to existing ones.

   MC: Think we need new techs for transparencies.

   JS: Ok, will keep this action.

   <scribe> ACTION:2063? [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/07/13-apa-minutes.html#action01]

   JS: Done. Some points for discussion though.


   <trackbot> action-2068 -- John Foliot to Follow up on eme comments from before https://www.w3.org/tr/encrypted-media/ encrypted media extensions -- due 2016-07-13 --

   <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2068

   MC: No JF today.


   <trackbot> action-2054 -- Cynthia Shelly to Review css generated content module level 3 https://www.w3.org/tr/css-content-3/ -- due 2016-07-08 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2054

   CS: No progress. Skimmed it but as part of AAM.

   LW: Have looked at this, and agree with Cyns.

   <MichaelC> close action-2054

   <trackbot> Closed action-2054.


   <trackbot> action-2046 -- Cynthia Shelly to Add headings for ordering in css aam http://github/w3c/aria/css-aam/css-aam.html -- due 2016-06-30 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2046

   JS: On the agenda for later.

   CS: Not in the AAM doc. Became clear it isn't ready for spec format yet.

   <MichaelC> close action-2046

   <trackbot> Closed action-2046.

new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html

   <MichaelC> Time Ontology in OWL

   SM: Out of our scope.

   JS: Agreed.

   MC: There is EME - JF has the action open. It's in CR - but suggest we leave it for the moment.

   <MichaelC> CSS Counter Styles Level 3

   JS: Yes.

   MC: Also CSS Custom Counter Styles Level 3.

   <scribe> ... New spec. Seems to be related to the existing counter styles spec.

   <MichaelC> Custom Counter Styles

   UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: Think it's "no need for review".
   ... We sent comments in 2013 for the original counter styles spec.
   ... We dropped the ball, so need to pick up on it again.

   JS: Did we ask Lisa to follow up on the repsonse?

   MC: Not sure.

   JS: Will follow up with Lisa.

   <MichaelC> ACTION: Lisa to pick up the thread with https://www.w3.org/TR/css-counter-styles-3/ CSS Counter Styles Level 3 on needing reply to their response to us
   [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/07/13-apa-minutes.html#action02]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2070 - Pick up the thread with https://www.w3.org/tr/css-counter-styles-3/ css counter styles level 3 on needing reply to their response to
   us [on Lisa Seeman - due 2016-07-20].

   <MichaelC> Wake Lock API

   MC: Have sent a reply to say we don't have comments.

   SM: Related item... As Respec is evolving, we're adding a live "linter".
   ... It will advise you when you're not doing things correctly. It will include advice on accessibility.
   ... If anyone here is interested in helping with the advice, come on along.

   MC: Is there a pointer?

   <ShaneM> https://github.com/w3c/respec/pull/866

   <ShaneM> ACTION: ShaneM to notify APA and ARIA Editors and possibly WAI-IG about this opportunity. [recorded in

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2071 - Notify apa and aria editors and possibly wai-ig about this opportunity. [on Shane McCarron - due 2016-07-20].

Action-2046 CSS, CSS-AAM & TF http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jul/0018.html

   <cyns> https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/CSS-AAM-Potential-Features

   CS: Would like everyone to look at this.
   ... There are categories.
   ... CSS AAM, and WCAG.

   FE: Sent an editorial note to the list.
   ... Would like a category of things we want the TF to explore.

   CS: Was thinking about it as a category - has the same heading level.
   ... Want to introduce this softly.

   +1 to Cyns softly.

   JS: When IndieUI was running, we thought media queries could play a role in personalisation.
   ... There wasn't CSS consensus though. It's unclear to me, to what degree media queries might be a solution.

   CS: Maybe a category for things that might result in new CSS features?

   JS: Yes.
   ... Thank you for taking a sensitive approach with this Cynthia.

   CS: In the CSS AAM there are two further categories.
   ... Navigation and order, with several related specs.
   ... Consensus seems to be that the current status quo is a feature not a bug.
   ... Other category is stuff that impacts the acc APIs.
   ... There are places for WCAG techniques.
   ... Did not read all of CSS Level 2. Much has been superceeded by Level 3, but need to talk to the CSS WG to understand that relationship.

   MC: We have info in our wiki about some of these specs.

   FE: Media queries may help COGA too.

   CS: Ok.

   <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to ask about moving CSS-AAM to a new repository and to mention want to get the specs in the wiki tagged according to these categories and
   to note look through

   MC: ARIA editors are planning to split their specs into individual repos. Should we take this approach with the CSS AAM from the outset?

   CS: Seems reasonable.

   +1 to individual repo from the outset.

   <joanie> +1 to individual repo

   JS: For now think it helps to say this is speculative.

   MC: The Github wiki is not part of the spec code. It's a separate thing.
   ... The other issue, in the wiki I'm using category tags to track things.
   ... Already a category for things to be addressed by the AAM, and things to be addressed in Nav/Order.
   ... It will help if we can use these tags.

   <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:CSS

   MC: Also, any CSS spec we've looked at this year, we have notes on in our wiki.
   ... Pointer ^^.

   RRSAgent: q+

   MC: Are we ready for the TF?

   CSS: Think we want to reach out gently to the CSS WG.
   ... We want them to feel part of creating this.

   LW: I think there are interested people in the CSS WG. Have had some good conversations with a few different people recently.

   RS: Perhaps a conversation for TPAC?
   ... At IBM we have teams wanting to use latest CSS features, but we're restricted because they're not accessible.
   ... That's a thing that's only going to get worse.
   ... Wonder if they realise there are companies finding this an obstacle.

   CS: Could your team do something like a video of a screen reader failing to use an IBM product because of those features?

   RS: We can't use them so they're not in the products.
   ... Not sure I have bandwidth.

   <ShaneM> I thought the suggestion was that the product team do it - like file a problem report with a video

   CS: Anyone on the team with time?

   RS: Possibly. I think they've pulled most of it out of the product and/or already restructured the DOM.

   CS: Perhaps some documentation of discussions where this was identified as a problem?

   JS: Think that kind of thing will be a useful educational tool.

   <ShaneM> Could we ask JamesN to look into this?

   JS: What we need to communicate is that this is a mainstream thing.

   LW: I think they feel that the existing mismatch with CSS layouts means this isn't a new thing.

   MC: Doesn't mean it isn't a problem to fix though.

   LW: No, agree.

   JS: Based on what Cyns has shown us, anyone object to m reaching out to CSS and ARIA?
   ... hearing no objections.

   CS: Suggest we start with a small reach out.

   LW: Have we had no discussion with the CSS WG/team?

   JS: Has been discussed with Chris and Rossen.

   RSS: Do we want to meet at TPAC?

   <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say +1 to talk at TPAC, but donÂŽt wan to wait until then to get things moving

   JS: Absolutely.

   MC: We should not do nothing until then.

   CS: We could do a Wednesday breaktout session?

   MC: Yes, we'll need a proposal.

   <MichaelC> TPAC Breakouts

   CS: Also a meeting between wWCAG and CSS for techniques would be helpful.

   <janina> scribe: janina

   group discussion about who and how on wcag techniques

   <MichaelC> WCAG CSS Techniques need writing

   <MichaelC> WCAG CSS technique development tracking

   Joanie suggests perhaps the curent authoring practices team in ARIA might continue by taking up authoring guidance e CSS

   <Rich> hmm

   <Rich> more work

   Meeting adjourns

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: 2063? [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/07/13-apa-minutes.html#action01]
   [NEW] ACTION: Lisa to pick up the thread with https://www.w3.org/TR/css-counter-styles-3/ CSS Counter Styles Level 3 on needing reply to their response to us
   [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/07/13-apa-minutes.html#action02]
   [NEW] ACTION: ShaneM to notify APA and ARIA Editors and possibly WAI-IG about this opportunity. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/07/13-apa-minutes.html#action03]

Summary of Resolutions

   [End of minutes]

ScribeNicks: LJWatson, janina
Present: Michiel_Bijl Janina Joanmarie_Diggs MichaelC JF ShaneM LJWatson Rich_Schwerdtfeger fesch
Regrets: Gottfried Michiel
People with action items: lisa shanem


Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200
  Email: janina@rednote.net

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa

Received on Wednesday, 13 July 2016 17:21:22 UTC