- From: Fred Esch <fesch@us.ibm.com>
- Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 13:48:36 -0500
- To: "W3C WAI Accessible Platform Architectures" <public-apa@w3.org>
- Message-Id: <201602081850.u18IotKS030986@d03av02.boulder.ibm.com>
Want to get this in the list so I can reference it in action-2005.
Regards,
Fred Esch
Watson, IBM, W3C
Accessibility
IBM Watson Watson Release Management and Quality
----- Forwarded by Fred Esch/Arlington/IBM on 02/08/2016 01:47 PM -----
From: Florian Rivoal <florian@vivliostyle.com>
To: "Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken" <tsiegman@wiley.com>
Cc: Fred Esch/Arlington/IBM@IBMUS, "(markus.gylling@gmail.com)"
<markus.gylling@gmail.com>, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>, Romain
Deltour <rdeltour@gmail.com>, "Michael Cooper (cooper@w3.org)"
<cooper@w3.org>
Date: 02/08/2016 02:31 AM
Subject: Re: Personalizations and Media Queries 4
Hi,
I fully support the goal of customization, and of giving means to users to
express preferences over how content should be styled.
However, in the general case, media queries are not a tool for that. They
are a tool to let the author change aspects of their design in response to
a different environment. It isn't out of question that "the environment"
could include user preferences, but expressing these at the right
granularity is a difficult task, and then authors are still free to ignore
them entirely.
User style sheets seem generally more suited to let users expressed what
stylistic changes they want on a page. Historically they have suffered from
poor to no UI, but as a mechanism, they are appropriate for doing things
like font size of style changes, switching from black text on white
background to the reverse or to a sepia style, and many other things ebook
readers have been offering their users.
Whether or not they are the actual mechanism used, in most cases user style
sheets are in line with the behavior authors expect. When someone reading
an ebook clicks the "sepia" button, they are telling their User Agent what
to do to the content, not making ignorable requests to the author.
There are some areas where preference media queries may have a role to
play, and the CSSWG is interested in looking into these even though they
have not been prioritized so far. This would be focused on accessibility,
tying into the OS level controls that already exist. Examples put forward
by apple have included: preferring reduced animation, preferring using
shapes rather than colors to draw distinctions between things, or
preferring reduced transparency.
The difficulty is that these things need to be fairly abstract (if they
were not, user style sheets would be more appropriate), yet actionable, and
at the same time be a sufficiently short list that implementors and authors
can be expected to care. The most likely path forward here is to work from
the list of settings that pre-exist in operating systems and standardize
that.
--
Florian RIVOAL
取締役、Chief Commercial Officer
Vivliostyle
On Feb 4, 2016, at 03:52, Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken <
tsiegman@wiley.com> wrote:
HI Fred,
As we discussed in today’s APA meeting [1], personalization is a huge
issue for DPUB and could be relevant to your a11y review of Media
Queries Level 4 [2]. We have several preliminary use cases [3].
Romain Deltour is working on a more formal use case document. I have
included him on this note so that he knows what priority these use
cases should take.
In the current digital publishing world, at least some degree of
personalization is an assumption for all users. All reading systems
offer the user at least some options for adjusting fonts, font size,
background color, line height, and zoom. This has very interesting
implications for paged content, reflowable content, and many other
implications for CSS. This is not usually an aspect of the CSS for
the publication but built into the user agent settings.
I have copied Florian Rivoal who is at once one of the editors for
Media Queries and an expert in pagination. Aside from information for
your review of MQs, we hope to bring these use cases to WAI for
practical implementation.
Please let us know what we can do to help and if you need more
information about the use cases.
Best,
Tzviya
[1] https://www.w3.org/2016/02/03-apa-minutes.html
[2] https://drafts.csswg.org/mediaqueries-4/
[3] https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Directory#Personalization
Tzviya Siegman
Digital Book Standards & Capabilities Lead
Wiley
201-748-6884
tsiegman@wiley.com
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<html><body><p>Want to get this in the list so I can reference it in <a href="https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2005">action-2005</a>.<br><br><br>
<table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tr valign="top"><td width="473" colspan="2" valign="middle"><div align="center"><font size="4" face="Verdana">Regards, <br><br>Fred Esch <br>Watson, IBM, W3C Accessibility</font></div></td></tr>
<tr valign="top"><td width="130" valign="middle"><img src="cid:1__=0ABBF5C0DFF4BEFF8f9e8a93df938690918c0AB@" width="163" height="23" alt="IBM Watson" align="bottom"></td><td width="342" valign="middle"><font size="4" face="Verdana">Watson Release Management and Quality </font></td></tr></table><br><font size="2" color="#800080">----- Forwarded by Fred Esch/Arlington/IBM</font><font size="2" color="#800080"> on 02/08/2016 01:47 PM</font><font size="2" color="#800080"> -----</font><br><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">From: </font><font size="2">Florian Rivoal <florian@vivliostyle.com></font><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">To: </font><font size="2">"Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken" <tsiegman@wiley.com></font><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">Cc: </font><font size="2">Fred Esch/Arlington/IBM@IBMUS, "(markus.gylling@gmail.com)" <markus.gylling@gmail.com>, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>, Romain Deltour <rdeltour@gmail.com>, "Michael Cooper (cooper@w3.org)" <cooper@w3.org></font><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">Date: </font><font size="2">02/08/2016 02:31 AM</font><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">Subject: </font><font size="2">Re: Personalizations and Media Queries 4</font><br><hr width="100%" size="2" align="left" noshade style="color:#8091A5; "><br><br><br><font size="4">Hi,</font><br><br><font size="4">I fully support the goal of customization, and of giving means to users to express preferences over how content should be styled.</font><br><br><font size="4">However, in the general case, media queries are not a tool for that. They are a tool to let the author change aspects of their design in response to a different environment. It isn't out of question that "the environment" could include user preferences, but expressing these at the right granularity is a difficult task, and then authors are still free to ignore them entirely.</font><br><br><font size="4">User style sheets seem generally more suited to let users expressed what stylistic changes they want on a page. Historically they have suffered from poor to no UI, but as a mechanism, they are appropriate for doing things like font size of style changes, switching from black text on white background to the reverse or to a sepia style, and many other things ebook readers have been offering their users.</font><br><br><font size="4">Whether or not they are the actual mechanism used, in most cases user style sheets are in line with the behavior authors expect. When someone reading an ebook clicks the "sepia" button, they are telling their User Agent what to do to the content, not making ignorable requests to the author.</font><br><br><font size="4">There are some areas where preference media queries may have a role to play, and the CSSWG is interested in looking into these even though they have not been prioritized so far. This would be focused on accessibility, tying into the OS level controls that already exist. Examples put forward by apple have included: preferring reduced animation, preferring using shapes rather than colors to draw distinctions between things, or preferring reduced transparency.</font><br><br><font size="4">The difficulty is that these things need to be fairly abstract (if they were not, user style sheets would be more appropriate), yet actionable, and at the same time be a sufficiently short list that implementors and authors can be expected to care. The most likely path forward here is to work from the list of settings that pre-exist in operating systems and standardize that. </font><br><br><font size="4">--</font><br><font size="4">Florian RIVOAL</font><br><font size="4">取締役、Chief Commercial Officer</font><br><font size="4">Vivliostyle</font><br>
<ul><ul><font size="4">On Feb 4, 2016, at 03:52, Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken <</font><a href="mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com"><u><font size="4" color="#0000FF">tsiegman@wiley.com</font></u></a><font size="4">> wrote:</font><br><br><font face="Calibri">HI Fred,</font><br><font face="Calibri"> </font><br><font face="Calibri">As we discussed in today’s APA meeting [1], personalization is a huge issue for DPUB and could be relevant to your a11y review of Media Queries Level 4 [2]. We have several preliminary use cases [3]. Romain Deltour is working on a more formal use case document. I have included him on this note so that he knows what priority these use cases should take.</font><br><font face="Calibri"> </font><br><font face="Calibri">In the current digital publishing world, at least some degree of personalization is an assumption for all users. All reading systems offer the user at least some options for adjusting fonts, font size, background color, line height, and zoom. This has very interesting implications for paged content, reflowable content, and many other implications for CSS. This is not usually an aspect of the CSS for the publication but built into the user agent settings.</font><br><font face="Calibri"> </font><br><font face="Calibri">I have copied Florian Rivoal who is at once one of the editors for Media Queries and an expert in pagination. Aside from information for your review of MQs, we hope to bring these use cases to WAI for practical implementation.</font><br><font face="Calibri"> </font><br><font face="Calibri">Please let us know what we can do to help and if you need more information about the use cases.</font><br><font face="Calibri"> </font><br><font face="Calibri">Best,</font><br><font face="Calibri">Tzviya</font><br><font face="Calibri"> </font><br><font face="Calibri">[1] </font><a href="https://www.w3.org/2016/02/03-apa-minutes.html"><u><font color="#800080" face="Calibri">https://www.w3.org/2016/02/03-apa-minutes.html</font></u></a><br><font face="Calibri">[2] </font><a href="https://drafts.csswg.org/mediaqueries-4/"><u><font color="#800080" face="Calibri">https://drafts.csswg.org/mediaqueries-4/</font></u></a><br><font face="Calibri">[3] </font><a href="https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Directory#Personalization"><u><font color="#800080" face="Calibri">https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Directory#Personalization</font></u></a><br><font face="Calibri"> </font><br><b><font color="#808080" face="Liberation Sans">Tzviya Siegman</font></b><br><font color="#808080" face="Liberation Sans">Digital Book Standards & Capabilities Lead</font><br><font color="#808080" face="Liberation Sans">Wiley</font><br><font color="#808080" face="Liberation Sans">201-748-6884</font><br><a href="mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com"><u><font color="#800080" face="Liberation Sans">tsiegman@wiley.com</font></u></a></ul></ul><br><BR>
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Received on Monday, 8 February 2016 18:51:34 UTC