W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-apa@w3.org > February 2016

Re: grids vs sortable tables

From: Fred Esch <fesch@us.ibm.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 12:56:34 -0500
Steve,

There are sortable tables being used in the wild, for example angularJS's
ng-table. How are developers supposed to tell AT users that a table is
sortable and a column can be sorted if the sortable and sorted properties
are removed?

Sortable tables are important for accessibility as they are often used as
an accessible alternative to charts. Even when you can make a chart
accessible, when you a huge number of data rows - you want a better way for
an AT user to find the max/min values than walking all the data members.
For instance, providing a sortable table will be more usable than having an
accessible bar chart and forcing an AT user to walk 200 bars to find the
top five bars.  Personally, if I had to get the top five values from a huge
bar chart I would prefer a sortable table as well.

                                                              
     Regards,                                                 
                                                              
    Fred Esch                                                 
 Watson, IBM, W3C                                             
  Accessibility                                               
                                                              
 IBM Watson       Watson Release Management and Quality       
                                                              






From:	Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
To:	Fred Esch/Arlington/IBM@IBMUS
Cc:	Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>, Accessible Rich Internet
            Applications Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>
Date:	01/29/2016 04:58 PM
Subject:	Re: grids vs sortable tables




On 29 January 2016 at 20:07, Fred Esch <fesch@us.ibm.com> wrote:
  A table element can have a 'sortable' attribute which designates you can
  sort on columns.



note the table sorting algorithm and associated attribute have been removed
from the whatwg HTML spec due to a lack of implementer interest and suggest
the same fate will befall this feature in W3C HTML, sooner rather than
later.

--

Regards

SteveF
Current Standards Work @W3C

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<html><body><p>Steve,<br><br>There are sortable tables being used in the wild, for example angularJS's ng-table. How are developers supposed to tell AT users that a table is sortable and a column can be sorted if the sortable and sorted properties are removed? <br><br>Sortable tables are important for accessibility as they are often used as an accessible alternative to charts. Even when you can make a chart accessible, when you a huge number of data rows - you want a better way for an AT user to find the max/min values than walking all the data members. For instance, providing a sortable table will be more usable than having an accessible bar chart and forcing an AT user to walk 200 bars to find the top five bars.  Personally, if I had to get the top five values from a huge bar chart I would prefer a sortable table as well.  <br><br><br>
<table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tr valign="top"><td width="473" colspan="2" valign="middle"><div align="center"><font size="4" face="Verdana">Regards, <br><br>Fred Esch <br>Watson, IBM, W3C Accessibility</font></div></td></tr>
<tr valign="top"><td width="130" valign="middle"><img src="cid:1__=0ABBF5DFDFCC33718f9e8a93df938690918c0AB@" width="163" height="23" alt="IBM Watson" align="bottom"></td><td width="342" valign="middle"><font size="4" face="Verdana">Watson Release Management and Quality </font></td></tr></table><br><br><img width="16" height="16" src="cid:2__=0ABBF5DFDFCC33718f9e8a93df938690918c0AB@" border="0" alt="Inactive hide details for Steve Faulkner ---01/29/2016 04:58:04 PM---On 29 January 2016 at 20:07, Fred Esch &lt;fesch@us.ibm.com&gt; "><font color="#424282">Steve Faulkner ---01/29/2016 04:58:04 PM---On 29 January 2016 at 20:07, Fred Esch &lt;fesch@us.ibm.com&gt; wrote: &gt; A table element can have a *'sort</font><br><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">From:        </font><font size="2">Steve Faulkner &lt;faulkner.steve@gmail.com&gt;</font><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">To:        </font><font size="2">Fred Esch/Arlington/IBM@IBMUS</font><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">Cc:        </font><font size="2">Matt King &lt;a11ythinker@gmail.com&gt;, Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group &lt;public-aria@w3.org&gt;</font><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">Date:        </font><font size="2">01/29/2016 04:58 PM</font><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">Subject:        </font><font size="2">Re: grids vs sortable tables</font><br><hr width="100%" size="2" align="left" noshade style="color:#8091A5; "><br><br><br><br><font size="4">On 29 January 2016 at 20:07, Fred Esch &lt;</font><a href="mailto:fesch@us.ibm.com" target="_blank"><u><font size="4" color="#0000FF">fesch@us.ibm.com</font></u></a><font size="4">&gt; wrote:</font><ul><font size="4">A table element can have a </font><i><font size="4">'sortable'</font></i><font size="4"> attribute which designates you can sort on columns.</font></ul><br><font size="4"><br>note the table sorting algorithm and associated attribute have been removed from the whatwg HTML spec due to a lack of implementer interest and suggest the same fate will befall this feature in W3C HTML, sooner rather than later.<br></font><br><font size="4">--<br><br>Regards<br><br>SteveF</font><br><a href="http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3c/" target="_blank"><u><font size="4" color="#0000FF">Current Standards Work @W3C</font></u></a><br><BR>
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Received on Monday, 1 February 2016 18:03:36 UTC

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