- From: Fred Esch <fesch@us.ibm.com>
- Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 12:56:34 -0500
- To: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
- Cc: Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>, "W3C WAI Accessible Platform Architectures" <public-apa@w3.org>
- Message-Id: <201602011802.u11I2UWR019861@d03av02.boulder.ibm.com>
Steve,
There are sortable tables being used in the wild, for example angularJS's
ng-table. How are developers supposed to tell AT users that a table is
sortable and a column can be sorted if the sortable and sorted properties
are removed?
Sortable tables are important for accessibility as they are often used as
an accessible alternative to charts. Even when you can make a chart
accessible, when you a huge number of data rows - you want a better way for
an AT user to find the max/min values than walking all the data members.
For instance, providing a sortable table will be more usable than having an
accessible bar chart and forcing an AT user to walk 200 bars to find the
top five bars. Personally, if I had to get the top five values from a huge
bar chart I would prefer a sortable table as well.
Regards,
Fred Esch
Watson, IBM, W3C
Accessibility
IBM Watson Watson Release Management and Quality
From: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
To: Fred Esch/Arlington/IBM@IBMUS
Cc: Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>, Accessible Rich Internet
Applications Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>
Date: 01/29/2016 04:58 PM
Subject: Re: grids vs sortable tables
On 29 January 2016 at 20:07, Fred Esch <fesch@us.ibm.com> wrote:
A table element can have a 'sortable' attribute which designates you can
sort on columns.
note the table sorting algorithm and associated attribute have been removed
from the whatwg HTML spec due to a lack of implementer interest and suggest
the same fate will befall this feature in W3C HTML, sooner rather than
later.
--
Regards
SteveF
Current Standards Work @W3C
--1__
BBF5DFDFCC33718f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBF5DFDFCC3371
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Disposition: inline
<html><body><p>Steve,<br><br>There are sortable tables being used in the wild, for example angularJS's ng-table. How are developers supposed to tell AT users that a table is sortable and a column can be sorted if the sortable and sorted properties are removed? <br><br>Sortable tables are important for accessibility as they are often used as an accessible alternative to charts. Even when you can make a chart accessible, when you a huge number of data rows - you want a better way for an AT user to find the max/min values than walking all the data members. For instance, providing a sortable table will be more usable than having an accessible bar chart and forcing an AT user to walk 200 bars to find the top five bars. Personally, if I had to get the top five values from a huge bar chart I would prefer a sortable table as well. <br><br><br>
<table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tr valign="top"><td width="473" colspan="2" valign="middle"><div align="center"><font size="4" face="Verdana">Regards, <br><br>Fred Esch <br>Watson, IBM, W3C Accessibility</font></div></td></tr>
<tr valign="top"><td width="130" valign="middle"><img src="cid:1__=0ABBF5DFDFCC33718f9e8a93df938690918c0AB@" width="163" height="23" alt="IBM Watson" align="bottom"></td><td width="342" valign="middle"><font size="4" face="Verdana">Watson Release Management and Quality </font></td></tr></table><br><br><img width="16" height="16" src="cid:2__=0ABBF5DFDFCC33718f9e8a93df938690918c0AB@" border="0" alt="Inactive hide details for Steve Faulkner ---01/29/2016 04:58:04 PM---On 29 January 2016 at 20:07, Fred Esch <fesch@us.ibm.com> "><font color="#424282">Steve Faulkner ---01/29/2016 04:58:04 PM---On 29 January 2016 at 20:07, Fred Esch <fesch@us.ibm.com> wrote: > A table element can have a *'sort</font><br><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">From: </font><font size="2">Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com></font><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">To: </font><font size="2">Fred Esch/Arlington/IBM@IBMUS</font><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">Cc: </font><font size="2">Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>, Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group <public-aria@w3.org></font><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">Date: </font><font size="2">01/29/2016 04:58 PM</font><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">Subject: </font><font size="2">Re: grids vs sortable tables</font><br><hr width="100%" size="2" align="left" noshade style="color:#8091A5; "><br><br><br><br><font size="4">On 29 January 2016 at 20:07, Fred Esch <</font><a href="mailto:fesch@us.ibm.com" target="_blank"><u><font size="4" color="#0000FF">fesch@us.ibm.com</font></u></a><font size="4">> wrote:</font><ul><font size="4">A table element can have a </font><i><font size="4">'sortable'</font></i><font size="4"> attribute which designates you can sort on columns.</font></ul><br><font size="4"><br>note the table sorting algorithm and associated attribute have been removed from the whatwg HTML spec due to a lack of implementer interest and suggest the same fate will befall this feature in W3C HTML, sooner rather than later.<br></font><br><font size="4">--<br><br>Regards<br><br>SteveF</font><br><a href="http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3c/" target="_blank"><u><font size="4" color="#0000FF">Current Standards Work @W3C</font></u></a><br><BR>
</body></html>
--1__
BBF5DFDFCC33718f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBF5DFDFCC3371--
--0__
BBF5DFDFCC33718f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBF5DFDFCC3371
Content-type: image/gif;
name="0D977583.gif"
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="0D977583.gif"
Content-ID: <1__
BBF5DFDFCC33718f9e8a93df938690918c0AB@>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64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--0__
BBF5DFDFCC33718f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBF5DFDFCC3371
Content-type: image/gif;
name="graycol.gif"
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="graycol.gif"
Content-ID: <2__
BBF5DFDFCC33718f9e8a93df938690918c0AB@>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
R0lGODlhEAAQAKECAMzMzAAAAP///wAAACH5BAEAAAIALAAAAAAQABAAAAIXlI+py+0PopwxUbpu
ZRfKZ2zgSJbmSRYAIf4fT3B0aW1pemVkIGJ5IFVsZWFkIFNtYXJ0U2F2ZXIhAAA7
--0__
BBF5DFDFCC33718f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBF5DFDFCC3371--
Received on Monday, 1 February 2016 18:03:36 UTC