- From: Léonie Watson <tink@tink.uk>
- Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 09:48:30 +0000
- To: John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com>, Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>
- Cc: Accessible Platform Architectures Administration <public-apa-admin@w3.org>
+1 On 25/01/2018 22:48, John Foliot wrote: > (As author of the response, do I still +1?) > > JF > > On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net > <mailto:janina@rednote.net>> wrote: > > Colleagues: > > This is a Call for Consensus (CfC) to the Accessible Platform > Architectures (APA) Working Group on our review of the WebVTT > specification as requested at: > > https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-archive/2017Dec/0107.html > <https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-archive/2017Dec/0107.html> > > Please note these are comments following on work in response to PF-WB > comments from 2015. > > Please note also that the draft comments below cover some similar > issues present in our current > CfC on TTML Profiles: > > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa-admin/2018Jan/0000.html > <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa-admin/2018Jan/0000.html> > > > <Begin draft comments> > > *Item #1 Users of Magnification:* > > The bug-tracker indicates the following response(s): > > * Snap to flag (assumption: snap-to-lines flag) > > -> Concern: the concern is likely that if text is explicitly > positioned on certain lines, there is potential that enlarging the > text may > lead to text growing outside the rendering area (e.g. text positioned in > the top-most line), or successive lines may grow into each other. > > -> Reply: First we have to understand that when content is > enlarged, > the video is typically enlarged together with the text. Therefore, the > occurrance of this problem is rare. Secondly, there is a conflict > between > authoring requirements and rendering limitations. The browser rendering > algorithm will [adjust?] as well as it can, but once text breaks out > of the > video rendering boundaries, there is not much it can do. > > -> APA Response: APA recognizes the technical constraints > noted here > with regard to rendering limitations. Authoring Guidance recommendations > should nonetheless indicate the potential of this problem, and urge > content > authors to strive to have captions (etc.) be no greater than 50% of the > default width of the viewport (which would allow for a text increase of > roughly 200% without clipping). APA notes that for low-vision users, > even > at full-screen, those users may still need to enlarge the caption > text to > meet their reading needs. > > > * Sizing of the captions rendering area > > -> Concern: the concern is likely that the display area of > captions is > limited to the background area of the video element it is rendered > onto and > that with magnification the captions may go outside this rendering area. > > -> Reply: The area outside the video element is no usable to > render > captions onto (think about full-screen mode, or if the video is on a Web > page there is other content around the video element). Therefore, after > having done all it can to try and retain visibility of all caption text, > the browser will hit the limit of what it can do. > > -> APA Response: APA again recognizes the technical > constraints noted > here with regard to rendering limitations. We once again recommend good > authoring guidance to ensure that content authors are aware of the > potential issue raised, so that authoring decisions regarding > line-lengths > and amount of caption text rendered on screen at any single instance > can be > made with this knowledge. > > > * Visibility of captions when text is zoomed > > -> Concern: the concern is likely about what happens when the > text is > zoomed, but the video isn't. > > -> Reply: If there are tools that do this, then you will hit the > issues of overlapping text and disappearing text when hitting the > boundaries of the rendering area faster than normal. However, it is > unlikely that a tool would exist that zooms just the text and not > the video > element on screen. Normally, all content on a Web page is zoomed when > magnification or zooming tools are in use. > > -> APA Response: It was APA's understanding that one of the > benefits > of WebVTT was that it could be further styled by the content author > using > CSS. User stylesheets today provide the ability for users to modify and > enlarge onscreen text, and tools and browser extensions exist today to > accomplish this task. > > The presumption that video content would be zoomed to the same level of > caption text is, from APA's perspective, unfounded and incorrect, > and the > emergent WCAG 2.1 specifically will have a new Success Criteria (Success > Criterion 1.4.12 Text spacing - > http://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/master/guidelines/index.html#text-spacing > <http://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/master/guidelines/index.html#text-spacing>) > which currently notes that caption files (when supplied as stand-alone > time-stamped documents) are covered by this SC. Please also see: > https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/text-spacing/understanding/21/text-spacing.html > <https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/text-spacing/understanding/21/text-spacing.html> > > > Normally, all content on a Web page is zoomed when magnification or > zooming tools are in use. > > Respectfully, this is factually incorrect. Browser-based zoom > traditionally > operates like this, however other Assistive Technology tools may > only zoom > a part of the whole web page, or may only apply zoom to text > (and/but not > imagery). Some user-agents and platforms also allow for end-user font > magnification (for example, on the Android platform, individual > users can > choose from different default font sizes, that are applied to all > on-screen > content. > > APA again recognizes the technical limitations noted here with regard to > rendering limitations, and strongly recommends that appropriate > authoring > guidance to address all 3 related issues noted here be included > (directly) > in the Recommendation. > > ---------- > > *Item #2: The spec should include feature explanations in plain > language* > > -> Reply: no change, we rely on external documents to provide an > authoring guide. > > -> APA Response: There are actually 2 responses here. > > The first is related to an on-going request from APA that W3C Technical > Recommendations also include, when and where necessary, prose > summaries in > "plain english" that explain features and functions of the various parts > of any given spec. The intent here is to explain what is happening > with the > technology in lay terms, rather than explain how to create content using > the technology. (i.e.: don't just show an API [sic], explain it.) This > remains an important request from APA, but is not a blocking issue. > > The second response is related to Authoring Guidance documents > (referenced > in your reply). Following up on the Bug Tracker, it shows a link to an > authoring guidance document ( > https://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/concepts/VTT_Captioning > <https://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/concepts/VTT_Captioning>), yet > that URL > returns a 404 today. > > - Has this document been relocated elsewhere? If yes, can we > please have > the reference URL. If no, does the WG plan on > updating/recreating this > document? (This also ties-back to Item #1) > > - The current WebVTT Working Draft (https://www.w3.org/TR/webvtt1) > currently has 'editorial guidance' as part of the normative > specification > addressing privacy and security, and APA's request is that editorial > guidance for accessibility considerations also be provided in > the same > fashion (i.e. directly in the Rec, as opposed to linking out.) > > > APA would be please to assist in the review of any authoring > guidance that > emerges from the WebVTT WG. > > ---------- > > *Item #3: Captions on the audio element* > > -> Reply: fixed, explanations added. > > -> APA Response: Thank you. > > > > APA trusts this meets your request, and we are happy to further > elaborate > on any of these issues as required. > > <End Draft Comments> > > * ACTION TO TAKE > > This CfC is now open for objection, comment, as well as statements of > support via email. Silence will be interpreted as support, though > messages of support are certainly welcome. > > If you object to this proposed action, or have comments concerning this > proposal, please respond by replying on list to this message no later > than 23:59 (Midnight) Boston Time, Monday 29 January. > > APA Tracking Notes > > These comments reiterate requirements published in the W3C Note: Media > Accessibility User Requirements (MAUR): > http://www.w3.org/TR/media-accessibility-reqs/#captioning > <http://www.w3.org/TR/media-accessibility-reqs/#captioning> > > Inasmuch as similar comments to TTML have been Under an APA CfC, > that TTML CfC will now be extended to expire with this CfC: > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa-admin/2018Jan/0000.html > <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa-admin/2018Jan/0000.html> > > The WebVTT comments in this CfC were drafted for APA by John Foliot > and are in sync with our > TTML comments referenced above: > http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2162 > <http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2162> > > Further APA discussion is logged at: > http://www.w3.org/2018/01/24-apa-minutes.html#item05 > <http://www.w3.org/2018/01/24-apa-minutes.html#item05> > > Janina > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Janina Sajka > > Linux Foundation Fellow > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org > > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) > Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa > > > Here is my proposed feedback to the Timed Text Working Group:____ > > __ __ > > <draft-feedback>____ > > __ __ > > 1. While we appreciate that TTML Profiles for Internet Media > Subtitles and Captions 1.1 <https://www.w3.org/TR/ttml-imsc1.1/> > is depending on Timed Text Markup Language 2 (TTML2) > <https://www.w3.org/TR/ttml2/>, it should still include an > introduction that guides the reader to a better understanding of > its content. Such an introduction could respond to the > following questions:____ > 1. Why are profiles needed for text-only and image-only > captions/subtitles?____ > 2. What are typical use cases for a image-only > captions/subtitles?____ > 3. What is the purpose of a presentation processor, and a > transformation processor?____ > > __ __ > > 2. There is a general issue with the way that an author specifies > layout characteristics of captions and subtitles, such as font > size, font family, line height, background and positioning. The > spec describes the approach of the author specifying a “fixed > layout” for captions and subtitles that the user cannot change. > However, it must be possible for the user to overwrite the > author’s choice of font size, or background color, for example. > This is necessary for accessibility reasons, in the same way > that browsers allow the user to change font size and background > color. How can we find a good solution for these conflicting > interests between author and user? We would like to get into a > discussion with you on this issue. ____ > > __ __ > > 3. Section 2 Documentation Conventions (applies also to Timed Text > Markup Language 2 (TTML2) <https://www.w3.org/TR/ttml2/> section > 2.3). For accessibility of the spec, information such as whether > an element is deprecated or obsoleted should not be indicated by > color (or background color) alone (cf. WCAG 2.0 SC 1.4.1 > <https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG20/quickref/#visual-audio-contrast-without-color>). > ____ > > __ __ > > 4. Section 5.1 General. The method of associating a text profile > document instance with an image profile document instance should > be specified for interoperability reasons, and not be left open > to the specific implementation. Also, the association should be > in both ways, i.e. also from the image profile document instance > to the text profile document instance.____ > > __ __ > > 5. Section 6 Supported Features and Extensions. All font-related > features are prohibited for the image profile. This seems to be > an unnecessary restriction if the image profile contains images > in SVG format which could be rendered differently based on the > author’s choice of font characteristics.____ > > __ __ > > 6. Section 7.7.3 itts:forcedDisplay. This seems like a temporary > solution. Wouldn’t it be better to define semantic layers of > information that each could be made visible and invisible at > runtime as appropriate for the user? For example, the user may > want to see either speech-only (subtitles), narration speech > only (parts of subtitles), foreign-language speech-only (parts > of subtitles) or any combination of them. ____ > > __ __ > > 7. Section 7.7.4 itts:altText. While we see this feature as useful > for accessibility purposes, it should be mandatory for images > rather than recommended only. As mentioned in the spec, one > could take the pertaining text passage from the text profile > document instance – but (1) an accompanying text profile is not > required, and (2) the alternative text for the image could be > different from the textual caption. Therefore, the itts:altText > element should always be specified, but it should be empty for > decorative images (not clear if a “decorative image” used as a > caption makes sense anyway). By requiring an itts:altText for > every image, but allowing for an empty element in case of a > decorative image, we would align it with the alt attribute in > HTML5 for images.____ > > __ __ > > </draft-feedback>____ > > __ __ > > Best regards,____ > > Gottfried ____ > > __ __ > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Issue Tracker > [mailto:sysbot+tracker@w3.org <mailto:sysbot%2Btracker@w3.org>] > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. Oktober 2017 09:29 > An: public-apa@w3.org <mailto:public-apa@w3.org> > Betreff: apa-ACTION-2152: Review ttml profiles for internet media > subtitles and captions 1.1 https://www.w3.org/tr/ttml-imsc1.1/ > <https://www.w3.org/tr/ttml-imsc1.1/> > > __ __ > > apa-ACTION-2152: Review ttml profiles for internet media subtitles > and captions 1.1 https://www.w3.org/tr/ttml-imsc1.1/ > <https://www.w3.org/tr/ttml-imsc1.1/>____ > > __ __ > > http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2152 > <http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2152>____ > > __ __ > > Assigned to: Gottfried Zimmermann____ > > __ __ > > __ __ > > __ __ > > __ __ > > __ __ > > __ __ > > __ __ > > __ __ > > > > > > -- > John Foliot > Principal Accessibility Strategist > Deque Systems Inc. > john.foliot@deque.com <mailto:john.foliot@deque.com> > > Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion -- @LeonieWatson @tink@toot.cafe Carpe diem
Received on Friday, 26 January 2018 09:49:43 UTC