Re: List of Selectors (was: Re: Publication request: 2 documents for CR publication on the 22nd of November) from Benjamin Young on 2016-11-30 (public-annotation@w3.org from November 2016)

From: Benjamin Young <byoung@bigbluehat.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 16:34:46 +0000
To: "Kanai, Takeshi" <Takeshi.Kanai@sony.com>, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>, Robert Sanderson <azaroth42@gmail.com>
CC: W3C Public Annotation List <public-annotation@w3.org>
Message-ID: <BLUPR0601MB1473796AAEE0FD3B93180BBAB28C0@BLUPR0601MB1473.namprd06.prod.outlook.>
Interesting quest as all ways, Takeshi. :)


In the case of updating, it's likely up to the system doing the updating whether or not it preserves the original--only "editing" the bits it understands--or whether it loads the whole thing into its own internal representation and then outputs what it understands as a Web Annotation.

Ideally, it'd keep the things it doesn't understand around (as they'd still be valid statements potentially for others), but I'm also confident we didn't describe that scenario sufficiently to prevent stuff being dropped/removed by others...

Anyone up for a new WG? ;)

Cheers,
Benjamin


--

http://bigbluehat.com/


http://linkedin.com/in/benjaminyoung


________________________________
From: Kanai, Takeshi <Takeshi.Kanai@sony.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 7:57:09 PM
To: Ivan Herman; Robert Sanderson
Cc: Benjamin Young; W3C Public Annotation List
Subject: RE: List of Selectors (was: Re: Publication request: 2 documents for CR publication on the 22nd of November)


Benjamin,



I would like to make sure how the skipped selector will be updated, when the fallback selector got updates.

I’m afraid that Client A which does not know about RangeSelector can only update TextQuoteSelector, and it makes Client B which knows about RangeSelector confused.



Any thoughts?



Thanks,

Takeshi Kanai



From: Ivan Herman [mailto:ivan@w3.org]
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 5:49 AM
To: Robert Sanderson
Cc: Benjamin Young; W3C Public Annotation List
Subject: Re: List of Selectors (was: Re: Publication request: 2 documents for CR publication on the 22nd of November)



Sorry guys, I have only my mobile here, I cannot look up the details. But what is the problem using the good old RDF list?



However, at this point, I believe we should put it into a v2 bag. We cannot add new features.



Ivan

----

Ivan Herman

+31 641044153



(Written on my mobile. Excuses for brevity and frequent misspellings...)





On 29 Nov 2016, at 17:38, Robert Sanderson <azaroth42@gmail.com<mailto:azaroth42@gmail.com>> wrote:



Ahh, gotcha.



And the concern is that although there can be multiple selectors referenced from a specific resource, that if you transform it through RDF, you lose the order?  Where the order is the server's preference, perhaps based on degree of accuracy or fidelity of the original selection?



Rob





On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 8:08 AM, Benjamin Young <byoung@bigbluehat.com<mailto:byoung@bigbluehat.com>> wrote:

Well. The meaning in this case is different. It's a list of selectors to *attempt* in order. They don't refine each other. They're definitions of the same selection "intention" but using different selection strategies.



Think:

 - try RangeSelector--if it succeeds, stop.

 - otherwise, try TextQuoteSelector.



The RangeSelector, being more specific to the markup/rendering won't work on a PDF version of the content (for instance), but TextQuoteSelector would...and on the text/plain, etc.



See the objective?



I guess the only option (afaik) is to use the Open Annotation classes and consider these "extended" Web Annotations to be incompatible with a "baseline" Web Annotation implementation?



Thoughts?



--

http://bigbluehat.com/


http://linkedin.com/in/benjaminyoung


________________________________

From: Robert Sanderson <azaroth42@gmail.com<mailto:azaroth42@gmail.com>>
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 10:53:18 AM
To: Benjamin Young
Cc: Ivan Herman; Tim Cole; Shane McCarron; W3C Public Annotation List
Subject: Re: Publication request: 2 documents for CR publication on the 22nd of November





A list of selectors to be processed in order should use refinedBy now, instead of a List.



R



On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 6:59 AM, Benjamin Young <byoung@bigbluehat.com<mailto:byoung@bigbluehat.com>> wrote:

So...given that these (Composite, Independents, and List) are coming out, what does someone intending to use them need to do?



I have examples of Wiley-derived annotations that currently use List to express a list (heh) of selectors which are intended to be processed in order.



I didn't submit those examples as there were several other bugs with them--the general shape is spot-on, but someone use idiosyncratic values for "type" (Java classes or some such... >_>).



I could fix them by hand--as bugs for those issues have been reported and I hope will be in progress soon. However, I'm also guessing it's "too little; too late?"



Happy Monday, all,

Benjamin



--

http://bigbluehat.com/


http://linkedin.com/in/benjaminyoung


________________________________

From: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org<mailto:ivan@w3.org>>
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2016 3:11:09 AM
To: Robert Sanderson
Cc: Tim Cole; Shane McCarron; W3C Public Annotation List

Subject: Re: Publication request: 2 documents for CR publication on the 22nd of November





On 22 Nov 2016, at 21:54, Robert Sanderson <azaroth42@gmail.com<mailto:azaroth42@gmail.com>> wrote:





I don't think we should leave them in the context document. I took them out, but the re-revision may have resulted in the wrong version getting put into ns/



The most recent version is:



    https://github.com/w3c/web-annotation/blob/gh-pages/jsonld/anno.jsonld




As an aside, should I update the /ns file with this one? We may want to have an agreement on the issue…



Ivan







which doesn't have them.



R



On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 9:12 AM, Timothy Cole <t-cole3@illinois.edu<mailto:t-cole3@illinois.edu>> wrote:

Since the model features moved to informative appendix of the model were optional (i.e., may or should rather than must), I do not believe we need to rearrange any of the Annotation model tests.



HOWEVER, the json keys Composite, Independents, and List are no longer in our ontologies, although they are still present in our JSON-LD context document, and do appear in informative 'Proposed Definitions' appendix in the Vocab Rec.  So do we want to remove the handful of tests that do reference these keys? Thoughts? Personally, if we're going to leave these keys in our context document, I'd suggest leaving the tests in place as a convenience for developers going forward.  If we decide to remove these three keys from our context document then we probably should remove the tests.



We definitely will need to update the test to Exit criteria mapping and the references to CR.



-Tim Cole





From: Ivan Herman [mailto:ivan@w3.org<mailto:ivan@w3.org>]
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2016 9:20 AM
To: Shane McCarron <shane@spec-ops.io<mailto:shane@spec-ops.io>>
Cc: W3C Public Annotation List <public-annotation@w3.org<mailto:public-annotation@w3.org>>

Subject: Re: Publication request: 2 documents for CR publication on the 22nd of November





From my point of view:



- some tests may have to pushed down to the optional spaces

- the corresponding mapping table should be changed

- the references to the CR should be updated:-)



Ivan







On 22 Nov 2016, at 15:29, Shane McCarron <shane@spec-ops.io<mailto:shane@spec-ops.io>> wrote:



Do we need to make any changes to the test suites?



On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 3:38 AM, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org<mailto:ivan@w3.org>> wrote:

FYI



Begin forwarded message:



From: Denis Ah-Kang <denis@w3.org<mailto:denis@w3.org>>

Subject: Re: Publication request: 2 documents for CR publication on the 22nd of November

Date: 22 November 2016 at 10:34:31 GMT+1

To: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org<mailto:ivan@w3.org>>, webreq <webreq@w3.org<mailto:webreq@w3.org>>

Cc: W3C Communication Team <w3t-comm@w3.org<mailto:w3t-comm@w3.org>>, Xueyuan Jia (贾雪远) <xueyuan@w3.org<mailto:xueyuan@w3.org>>, Robert Sanderson <azaroth42@gmail.com<mailto:azaroth42@gmail.com>>, Tim Cole <t-cole3@illinois.edu<mailto:t-cole3@illinois.edu>>, Coralie Mercier <coralie@w3.org<mailto:coralie@w3.org>>

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Message-Id: <24995815-01a7-e3c9-dd04-b5b20fb6b53b@w3.org<mailto:24995815-01a7-e3c9-dd04-b5b20fb6b53b@w3.org>>



Hi,

The documents have been published on http://www.w3.org/TR/.


Regards,

Denis



----
Ivan Herman, W3C
Digital Publishing Technical Lead
Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/

mobile: +31-641044153<tel:%2B31-641044153>

ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704









--

Shane McCarron

Projects Manager, Spec-Ops



----
Ivan Herman, W3C
Digital Publishing Technical Lead
Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/

mobile: +31-641044153<tel:%2B31-641044153>

ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704









--

Rob Sanderson

Semantic Architect

The Getty Trust

Los Angeles, CA 90049



----
Ivan Herman, W3C
Digital Publishing Technical Lead
Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/

mobile: +31-641044153<tel:%2B31-641044153>

ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704










--

Rob Sanderson

Semantic Architect

The Getty Trust

Los Angeles, CA 90049





--

Rob Sanderson

Semantic Architect

The Getty Trust

Los Angeles, CA 90049
Received on Wednesday, 30 November 2016 16:35:26 UTC