- From: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
- Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 18:03:53 +0200
- To: W3C Public Annotation List <public-annotation@w3.org>
- Message-Id: <C15F6D9D-72AC-4AEE-BA94-B9C6E9FEDC1E@w3.org>
Minutes are here:
https://www.w3.org/2016/07/08-annotation-minutes.html
Textual version below
Cheers
Ivan
----
Ivan Herman, W3C
Digital Publishing Lead
Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
mobile: +31-641044153
ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
Web Annotation Working Group Teleconference
08 Jul 2016
[2]Agenda
[2] http://www.w3.org/mid/018401d1d884$d8134800$8839d800$@illinois.edu
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2016/07/08-annotation-irc
Attendees
Present
Rob Sanderson (azaroth), Ivan Berman, Benjamin Young
(bigbluehat), Jacob Jett, TB Dinesh, Tim Cole, Takeshi
Kanai
Regrets
Dan, Whaley, Frederick, Hirsch, Paolo, Ciccarese,
Randall_Leeds, Ben_De_Meester, Shane_McCarron, Randall,
Leeds, Ben, De, Meester
Chair
Tim
Scribe
azaroth, TimCole, TimColle
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]CR Status
2. [6]Testing
* [7]Summary of Action Items
* [8]Summary of Resolutions
__________________________________________________________
<TimCole> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Minutes of the last WG call are
approved:
[9]https://www.w3.org/2016/06/24-annotation-minutes.html
[9] https://www.w3.org/2016/06/24-annotation-minutes.html
<azaroth> +1
<Jacob> +1
<ivan> +1
<TimCole> scribenick: azaroth
RESOLUTION: Minutes of the last WG call are approved:
[10]https://www.w3.org/2016/06/24-annotation-minutes.html
[10] https://www.w3.org/2016/06/24-annotation-minutes.html
CR Status
Ivan: We have two published specs, model and vocab, on Tuesday.
Went out with no problems
... Had a hiccough with the TAG issue that wasn't properly
handled, but we got closure on Wednesday, and have everything
to get it published
... Have a reply this morning that the document is ready to go
... So don't expect any problems and it will be published on
Tuesday next week
<Loqi> I added a countdown for 7/12 12:00am (#5867)
Ivan: Editors and Chairs will be on the hook for any issues
that might come up, as I'll be on vacation
... Have some editorial feedback (Rob and Benjamin) already,
but will deal with it after tuesday
TimCole: Any further comments?
Rob: Hooray! :)
Tim, Ivan: A very important milestone :)
Testing
TimCole: There was some notes from Shane, that he has closed
his pull request
Benjamin: He had been asked to squash the commit history into a
single commit
... He was going to try and squash down to only the important
commits, and rename to be more consistent
... The reason to do it is to not have the master list expanded
by many new commit messages that overwhelm other messages in
the history
... Shane now cleaning up his local history and will send a new
PR
... Hopefully doesn't restart the process, but it is blocked on
Shane's work
TimCole: Trying to get local version up, ran into some issues.
Also confused about spec-ops and w3c test environments
... Are they the same thing?
bigbluehat: He has write access to spec-ops, w3c are the
gatekeepers with the PR requirements
... If not added there, then not part of the W3C test suite
TimCole: Relationship to our own annotation-test repo?
bigbluehat: Canonical source of where we keep the schema and
tests, regardless of the infrastructure
... decided to do that to avoid getting blocked on WPT if
there's other tools
... WPT can pull from it periodically, but regardless of how
those politics go, we still have our schema for testing
TimCole: Test scripts are tailored for the runner?
bigbluehat: Yes, but could write code to handle those too.
TimCole: Have some runner scripts, as you can't test without a
runner
bigbluehat: Best to keep them in web anno tests. If WPT fails,
which doesn't seem likely just a little slowed, having our
tests is useful to have in our own repo, so more tools can
benefit
... they're not dependent on any run time, just descriptive
docs
TimCole: This has been about the data model
<TimCole> scribenick: TimCole
azaroth: when and how can we get the annotations that ???
produces to test?
bigbluehat: Are you wanting a place to past these examples?
azaroth: yes, so that we can demonstrate end-to-end, albeit
incomplete.
<bigbluehat> [11]http://shane.spec-ops.io:8000/
[11] http://shane.spec-ops.io:8000/
azaroth: the sooner we get that done the sooner we get more
implementations
bigbluehat: we can use Shane's server in the short term
ivan: in many respects from the CR point of view what counts is
to get back an implementation report from ???
... in a format that Greg K. can process
azaroth: given Shane is not on the call and has to worry about
the WPT process, can someone help with this first end-to-end
<azaroth> scribenick: azaroth
TimCole: It looks simple, but there were some difficulties
... the runner doesn't work in my install
... it gets hung making the manifest
... What OS are you using?
bigbluehat: Windows, and ran into compile trouble
TimCole: I just cloned the repo and it started okay, but it got
stuck. If someone was able to get it running, and we had the
japanese examples, we could then generate a report to send to
Gregg
+1
scribe: Wondering if we need a place to save the annotations?
Rob: With the intent to save them and rerun with new tests, or
a different feature matrix
Ivan: No analogy to it in other groups. No harm to storing
them, closer to the tests would be good. Nice to have, not a
requirement
TimCole: You were thinking of starting with the japanese demo?
Rob: Yes, did an implementation of a client for IIIF, could do
the round trip test
TimCole: Should identify a folder in the Web Anno Test repo for
storing annotations to test
<tbdinesh> kamazaki annotator does not seen to work... for me.
TimCole: Seems simple enough.
Rob: Separate per implementation
Dinesh: That implementation doesn't work for me. It just says
preparing, it doesn't allow annoting the image
Rob: I tried only with the example images they have
Dinesh: Will try more and write a report
TimCole: I know shane has other things going on, I wonder if we
need an implementation of the platform we can use?
bigbluehat: Need to know what Gregg needs for the report. Then
just running AJV over it several times
TimCole: Let's try and get that going. Need implementations to
get started with the tests as soon as we can
Ivan: Would be worth reaching out to people we know are
planning to implement to get them rolling
TimCole: Need to give them something to work with. Europeana is
anxious to start
... Need somewhere to put the annotations and how to run the
tests.
ivan: Might be worth talking to the Pund.it people, what they
plan to do
... They said they want to transition to the model, but don't
remember about timing
<tbdinesh> (FYI: it throws this error after a while. will write
to him.
image-annotator?u=[12]http://static.zerochan.net/Uchiha.Sasuke.
full.678195.jpg:31 Uncaught ReferenceError: tiledesc is not
defined )
[12] http://static.zerochan.net/Uchiha.Sasuke.full.678195.jpg:31
Rob: Don't recall if they were clean on timing
Ivan: Europeana, Pundit, Hypothes.is, IIIF all good targets
TimCole: That gives us some work to do while Ivan is on
vacation :)
... Benjamin, protocol testing?
bigbluehat: I've begun reorganizing the tests I have, and the
tests for the tester, based on the PR that Rob and I went
through with the plan to put in after CR
... Easier to test.
TimCole: Just editorial?
bigbluehat: Yes, just clearer and better structured
... the code in WPT can be run separately from the wpt-serve
system
... server could be made standalone and generate its own
reports, if we need to
... protocol tester project has come a long way, so intend to
finish that out and have people use to test protocol
implementaitons
... then finish my protocol implementation to let clients test
against that
TimCole: Is it in github yet?
bigbluehat: Yes, in a weird spot at the moment
... a work in progress
<bigbluehat>
[13]https://github.com/Spec-Ops/web-platform-tests/pull/3
[13] https://github.com/Spec-Ops/web-platform-tests/pull/3
bigbluehat: in need of rebasing
...: tophat:
TimCole: thoughts on the issues with WPT PRs
bigbluehat: When you work with someone else's code, they have
opinions about how it should all be done
... not sure how broken it is. Sounds like he knows what's
needed, just needs to have the time to do it
... some of his commits are in front of my PR, so you can see
what he was trying to curate
TimCole: For what you're doing and for the model, when do we go
forwards? Only have a small percentage of the schemas written
bigbluehat: So long as the test structures don't change wildly,
no need to wait
... should ensure he can work on things when he has time, and
not pulled off in other directions
... How are you testing the scripts now?
TimCole: ajv command line
bigbluehat: Could write those up, and in lieu of WPT, could
point at the readme
<tbdinesh> +1 bigbluehat
bigbluehat: or wrap the commands in a script
TimCole: Other thing we've been doing is saving incorrect
annotations to make sure the schema catches them
... so can say annotation doesn't correctly implement as it
leaves out a required key
ivan: same for the protocol. THere's a number of MUSTs that
need to be checked
... the changes, should wait until Tuesday before committing
TimCole: We won't talk about them till after Tuesday :)
ivan: I won't be here, so I created a Release in GH. If someone
can create a protocol release that would be good.
... the changes on the protocol spec are good, fully behind it.
I ran into the same problems understanding the paging.
... Made me realize my toy implementation is buggy :)
... That's the real value of CR
TimCole: Both model and protocol for the next couple of weeks,
we'll have something to point implementers to
... that's what we're shooting for?
... combination of documentation and a little client/server
tester
bigbluehat: Ship everything as soon as possible
TimCole: Don't want to miss the window of interest
... where are we on vocab testing? Primarily the context doc?
ivan: Already have a test ... forgot to update the context and
the new one works for the japanese demo
TimCole: A good data point
ivan: Not all the implementations will use the context. Most
won't be RDF based. I know the guy is semantic, so he did some
testing by putting the data into an RDF store
... That can be documented
... same will hold for Europeana
Rob: At least transform through RDF on the way in and out
ivan: vocab testing is really about that -- the context
reflects the vocabulary the way it should. A bit shallow but
good data points
... Need to record them.
<TimCole> scribenick: TimCole
azaroth: similart vocab data point
... recent updates to my implementation of protocol transforms
both ways json-ld to rdf to json-ld via context and frames
... turtle to json-ld and vice versa
... I could extract code and make stand-alone as a demo of
ability to do this
ivan: yes, this is good,
<azaroth> scribenick: azaroth
TimCole: Would be good to document it
Ivan: Do you have a feeling of the RDF terms we define are in
use?
<TimCole> scribenick: TimColle
<TimCole> azaroth: client implementation is just images
<TimCole> ... so svg selector, uses format, textual body,
created, no creator yet
<TimCole> ... all the core stuff, but not the text stuff
<TimCole> ivan: adding a single table that these are the terms
that have been used by x implementation(s)
<TimCole> ... we asked each of the implementations to keep
track
<TimCole> ... to help us keep track, nothing else than an HTML
table
<TimCole> ... so when skos was defined it was always a question
about actual usage of the vocabulary
<TimCole> azaroth: yes, I can generate such a table.
<bigbluehat> +1
<azaroth> scribenick: azaroth
TimCole: Anything else about vocab testing?
Ivan: can document usage and context mapping. That's what we
said we'd do on the transition call
TimCole: What else today?
<tbdinesh> we have tried a bit. will see if i can put together
a "team" :)
TimCole: Nothing else?
... should we invite the Japanese and europeana folks to one of
our calls to discuss testing with them?
... assuming we have something for them to use
<bigbluehat> +1 to hearing from implementers we know about
<bigbluehat> takeshi++ for being awesome
<Loqi> takeshi has 1 karma
Rob: Hard for the combination of Europe and Japan!
<bigbluehat> takeshi++ for being way more awesome than 1 karma
point!
<Loqi> takeshi has 2 karma
TimCole: By email then when we have something to show
... Can adjourn unless there's other business
... will make progress on the schemas. If anyone wants to help,
please jump in
ivan: By the time I come back from vacation... ?
TimCole: Should at least have some test results :)
<bigbluehat> ivan: you've earned this vacation to be sure!
TimCole: When do you come back?
+1
ivan: 1st of August
takeshi: Checking the json-ld, and looked at the RFC for the
profile URI
... have developed a profile URI in the protocol, and should
provide the information to the RFC
<takeshi> [14]https://tools.ietf.org/rfc/rfc7284.txt
[14] https://tools.ietf.org/rfc/rfc7284.txt
<TimCole> scribenick: TimCole
azaroth: at TPAC last year we discussed with Heather whether it
would be possible to register
... a profile without registering a media type
... so we could register a profile
<bigbluehat> there's a separate profile registry iirc
azaroth: we should do that
<bigbluehat> oh...right RFC7284 >_>
ivan: do we know how to do that
azaroth: not clear since no one has registered a profile URI
yet
<bigbluehat> start now, I'd say
ivan: this worries me, having been through some of this before
... there is no way to register a fragment id propertly
<bigbluehat> ...which means its not an official thing yet
ivan: not fully up to date with ietf, but this is just an
informational document by Markus
<bigbluehat> [15]https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc7284/
[15] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc7284/
<bigbluehat> full status ^^
ivan: I presume Rob was in contact with Markus on some of this
... so perhaps Rob should contact Markus directly to ascertain
status
<bigbluehat> send it to me, I'll +1 it and send it back.
promise
azaroth: in Example 3 of the document there is a sample
registration submittal
ivan: with regard to media types there is a W3C agreement with
ietf
... such that media type defined in W3C document gets properly
registered
... not sure if it works the same way for profile
azaroth: will make an issue in git hub (PR milestone) to get in
touch with ietf
<ivan> trackbot, end telcon
Summary of Action Items
Summary of Resolutions
1. [16]Minutes of the last WG call are approved:
https://www.w3.org/2016/06/24-annotation-minutes.html
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
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Received on Friday, 8 July 2016 16:04:05 UTC