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Re: What happened to semantic tagging?

From: Benjamin Young <bigbluehat@hypothes.is>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 08:25:09 -0500
Message-ID: <CAE3H5F+EU4zxjskwEhjXumxhifp2M+fqp57LZj+4P6UO=ajWpQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Hugo Manguinhas <Hugo.Manguinhas@europeana.eu>
Cc: Paolo Ciccarese <paolo.ciccarese@gmail.com>, W3C Public Annotation List <public-annotation@w3.org>, Randall Leeds <randall@bleeds.info>
Hi Hugo,

Good points. I'd love to get your thoughts on Rob's post on the topic about
using `source` combined with `type` where `type` is a class denoting that
the value of `source` is a "thing in real life."

You could, in fact, use `foaf:Document` (the class used in `foaf:page`) and
the `skos:Concept` class as the values of `type` in the way that Rob
described.

It does have the advantage of being consistent--where bodies are all
referenced the same way and their shape changes to denote any distinct
differences...rather than their changing location based on their type.

Your thoughts here would be useful.

Thanks!
Benjamin
--
Developer Advocate
http://hypothes.is/

On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 4:15 AM, Hugo Manguinhas <
Hugo.Manguinhas@europeana.eu> wrote:

> Hi Benjamin,
>
> Using a @graph will introduce an additional complexity for such a simple
> pattern, specially because we don't know the actual property (in some cases
> it simply is not applicable) to be used in the rdf:Statement.
>
> About our requirements, we are developing an Annotation Server that must
> be capable of storing and serving annotations coming from different client
> applications. In particular, some tools allow the users to tag our objects
> with simple text and any sort of HTTP link, while in others the user (can
> also be a machine, e.g. a NERD tool) can only tag an object using a
> controled vocabulary (e.g. a SKOS vocabulary)... the relevance of
> distinguishing between the two is (for example) that the latter we can
> dereference the resource to obtain additional information while the others
> we cannot. We can also make requests to "discover", but we would prefer to
> have it explicit.
>
> Best regards,
> Hugo
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Benjamin Young [bigbluehat@hypothes.is]
> *Sent:* 06 November 2015 15:27
> *To:* Hugo Manguinhas
> *Cc:* Paolo Ciccarese; W3C Public Annotation List; Randall Leeds
>
> *Subject:* Re: What happened to semantic tagging?
>
> Given that the SemanticTag intent is to add to the graph, it may be best
> for us to explore places to put that in the JSON-LD such that it has that
> express meaning--and not shoe horn it into a place meant for something less
> "meaningful."
>
> This came up in recent conversations with Randall (CC'd), and the summary
> was essentially: "boy wouldn't it be nice if more formats understood named
> graphs"--see JSON-LD's `@graph` construct:
> http://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld/#named-graphs
>
> As specified currently, I think you could use the `tagging` role +
> `source` to express what we previously had using `page`.
>
> However, if you're adding statements about the target directly, then...I'd
> just use RDF as it is by adding statements to that portion of the JSON-LD
> or providing an additional `@graph` object.
>
> Granted...there may be something here I'm missing that you need for your
> use case(s), so feedback welcome! :)
>
> On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 9:16 AM, Hugo Manguinhas <
> Hugo.Manguinhas@europeana.eu> wrote:
>
>> Hi Paolo,
>>
>> Thanks for your reply!
>>
>> To be honest I am still a bit ceptic on the introduction of roles to
>> bodies and targets in the new spec since at such level it would be more
>> natural to understand them as a form of classification (using @type) than a
>> motivation/role...
>>
>> But coming back to the semantic tagging, how can one now distinguish
>> between a "semantic" (machine readable, e.g. dbp) resource and a webpage
>> (previously represented using the foaf:page property)? of course, assuming
>> that the role tagging is used for both cases....
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Paolo Ciccarese [paolo.ciccarese@gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* 06 November 2015 14:34
>> *To:* Hugo Manguinhas
>> *Cc:* W3C Public Annotation List
>> *Subject:* Re: What happened to semantic tagging?
>>
>> Hi Hugo,
>> Semantic tagging is still present but it is achieved through roles, if
>> you look at the list of the changes this is the entry: Align Tags and
>> SemanticTags with roles for body and target.
>>
>> You might want to look at this section:
>>
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2015/WD-annotation-model-20151015/#roles-for-external-resources
>>
>> Best,
>> Paolo
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 5:29 AM, Hugo Manguinhas <
>> Hugo.Manguinhas@europeana.eu> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> As I was looking through the recently published version of the spec, I
>>> noticed that there is no reference to semantic tagging of resources as was
>>> in the previous version. I was wondering if it was retracted from the spec,
>>> or if there is another way to model it in this spec.
>>>
>>> Btw, I have dig up this thread from September that debates some issues
>>> around it:
>>> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-annotation/2015Sep/0184.html,
>>> but would like to ask/confirm with you if this was the direction taken...
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance!
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>>
>>> *Hugo Manguinhas*
>>>
>>> Technical R&D Coordinator
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> T: +31 (0)70 314 0967
>>> M:
>>> E: Hugo.Manguinhas@europeana.eu
>>>
>>> Skype: hugo.manguinhas
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Dr. Paolo Ciccarese
>> Principal Knowledge and Software Engineer at PerkinElmer Innovation Lab
>> Assistant Professor of Neurology at Harvard Medical School
>>
>> Assistant in Neuroscience at Mass General Hospital
>> ORCID: http://orcid.org/0000-0002-5156-2703
>>
>
>
Received on Tuesday, 10 November 2015 13:25:41 UTC

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