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Re: Question on annotation of HTML content

From: Benjamin Young <bigbluehat@hypothes.is>
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2015 14:32:53 -0500
Message-ID: <CAE3H5FJuC8xn6c6SfCn9aDr_B+q9=Aa=+0yq2gp=3BW2S8ajHg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Robert Sanderson <azaroth42@gmail.com>
Cc: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>, Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>, W3C Public Annotation List <public-annotation@w3.org>
On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 2:26 PM, Robert Sanderson <azaroth42@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> That's also quite possible, but the Annotation is a bit irrelevant :) Not
> a bad thing, per se.
>
> This issue of whether, and if so how, to make assertions with
> Annotations.  We have tagging, but potential implementers and adopters
> should consider whether the annotation machinery is actually required, or
> whether using the SpecificResource pattern is sufficient.
>

Right. That. :)

So. How/Where should we call that out?

It's been one of the primary topics on this list for nearly a week now, so
it's likely to come up again. :)

Maybe we define the core things we're adding to the world's vocabulary
(SpecificResource, a few selectors, etc) and *then* explain what we're
adding to those for various use cases (body, creator, etc)?

Maybe a "Specific Resource Data Model" and then an "Web Annotation Data
Model" based on those bits?

Or does that cut too deeply?

Just an idea. ^_^


>
>
> On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 11:16 AM, Benjamin Young <bigbluehat@hypothes.is>
> wrote:
>
>> Would this be better served by making an optionally body-less annotation
>> (or "just RDF") that uses the target, SpecificResource, and selector system
>> we've defined to add triples to that?
>>
>> So that Ivan's example becomes:
>> ```
>> {
>>   "@context" :  [
>>     "http://www.w3.org/ns/anno.jsonld",
>>     {
>>       "itsrdf" : "http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its/rdf#"
>>     }
>>   ],
>>   "target" : {
>>     "source": "A URI TO THE TARGET",
>>     "selector": {
>>       "type": "TextQuoteSelector",
>>       "prefix": "...", "exact": "...", "suffix": "..."
>>     },
>>     "itsrdf:translate" : "no"
>> }
>> ```
>>
>> So that the resulting triples would shake out to:
>> _:t0 itsrdf:translate "no"
>>
>> Where `_:t0` is the auto-generated blank node identifier for the
>> SpecificResource classed Target.
>>
>> I don't think at any point you'd want to say that the body shouldn't be
>> translated...it's the target you care about translating or not...though
>> once you've determined that you might use the body to convey the
>> translation (but that's a separate set of examples, I'd reckon).
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Robert Sanderson <azaroth42@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I don't *disagree* but I'm not sure that it's the best way either, as
>>> the interpretation is ambiguous as to what should not be translated.
>>>
>>> To add an explicit id to the body, another property and anonymize the
>>> itsrdf assertion:
>>>
>>> {
>>>   "body": {
>>>     "id": "_:b0",
>>>     "format": "text/plain",
>>>     "some:property": "some value"
>>>   }
>>> }
>>>
>>> The property and value are about the body, not about the target, just
>>> like format is.  Now if you put back the translate: no ... you would be
>>> saying not to translate the body. However, you want to say that the
>>> *target* should not be translated.
>>>
>>> In natural language you would do:
>>>
>>> {
>>>   "body": {
>>>     "format": "text/plain",
>>>     "content": "This string should not be translated"
>>>   }
>>> }
>>>
>>> So in machine readable form, you could say:
>>>
>>> {
>>>   "body": {
>>>     "format": "text/turtle",
>>>     "content": "<uri-of-specific-resource> itsrdf:translate \"no\" . "
>>>   }
>>> }
>>>
>>> Does that help?
>>>
>>> Rob
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 8:32 AM, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hm.
>>>>
>>>> I believe that, in fact, what you wrote is almost correct as it is,
>>>> provided that you have added an additional context for that namespace. Ie,
>>>> in terms of JSON-LD, what you would do is:
>>>>
>>>> {
>>>> "@context" :  [
>>>> "http://www.w3.org/ns/anno.jsonld",
>>>> {
>>>> "itsrdf" : "http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its/rdf#"
>>>> }
>>>> ],
>>>> "target" : "A URI TO THE TARGET",
>>>>         "body" : {
>>>> "itsrdf:translate" : "no"
>>>>         }
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> The trick is that JSON-LD allows multiple contexts to be mixed in. I
>>>> believe that should be a bona fide (albeit unusual) annotation in the
>>>> model, but maybe Rob will disagree.
>>>>
>>>> However, if it actually *is* a correct annotation, we may want to call
>>>> out this type of example somewhere in the document… Annotations may want to
>>>> use terms from other vocabularies after all…
>>>>
>>>> Ivan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6 Nov 2015, at 17:07, Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 06.11.2015 um 16:31 schrieb Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6 Nov 2015, at 15:35, Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello all,
>>>>
>>>> apologies for this newbie question. I am looking for an example of
>>>> annotating HTML content. Imagine I have the following document:
>>>>
>>>> <!DOCTYPE html>
>>>> <html lang="en">
>>>> <head>
>>>>   <meta charset="utf-8">
>>>>   <title>some html doc</title>
>>>>
>>>> </head>
>>>> <body>
>>>>  <p>Welcome to <strong>Berlin</strong>!</p>
>>>> </body>
>>>> </html>
>>>>
>>>> I want to create an annotation that uses the web annotation model, uses
>>>> a text selector for the string „Berlin“ and adds an annotation body
>>>> containing a triple with the „translate“ predicate from the ITS 2.0
>>>> ontology, see
>>>>
>>>> http://www.essepuntato.it/lode/https://raw.githubusercontent.com/w3c/itsrdf/master/its-rdf.rdf#d4e52
>>>> expressing that the string should not be translated. How would this
>>>> look like?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am not sure what you intend to do. Do you mean that the target should
>>>> be a graph containing a specific triple?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> the target should be a selector selecting the string „Berlin“. The
>>>> annotation body should contain a tripe like
>>>>
>>>> "body": {
>>>>
>>>> "itsrdf:translate" : "no",
>>>>
>>>> … }
>>>>
>>>> So I am wondering how to express this target and how the body should
>>>> look like.
>>>>
>>>> - Felix
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ivan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the feedback in advance,
>>>>
>>>> Felix
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----
>>>> Ivan Herman, W3C
>>>> Digital Publishing Lead
>>>> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
>>>> mobile: +31-641044153
>>>> ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----
>>>> Ivan Herman, W3C
>>>> Digital Publishing Lead
>>>> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
>>>> mobile: +31-641044153
>>>> ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Rob Sanderson
>>> Information Standards Advocate
>>> Digital Library Systems and Services
>>> Stanford, CA 94305
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Rob Sanderson
> Information Standards Advocate
> Digital Library Systems and Services
> Stanford, CA 94305
>
Received on Friday, 6 November 2015 19:33:24 UTC

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