BEYOND LOGIC: [was How the best people reason/beyond the limits of the human brain]

>
> Greetings AI KR CG
>>
>
Following up on a thread exchanged on this list  five years ago, reposted
below and never properly discussed

This research note
<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1v5_bejXQKaEbZCF8q8Sy7yBIq9ULErGc-ZpOgq7LOLI/edit?usp=sharing>
summarizes
the arguments  and and provides a bibliography
with the invitation to expand on reasoning modalities

10.6084/m9.figshare.31356424


Paola Di Maio





>
>> On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 2:25 PM Paola Di Maio <paoladimaio10@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Picking up on something Dave said in response to the thread. COGAI vs
>>> AIKR
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 11:52 PM Dave Raggett <dsr@w3.org> wrote:
>>>     *If we can successfully reproduce how the best people reason, we
>>> will be in a strong position to improve on that by going beyond the limits
>>> of the human brain.  *
>>>
>>>   Dave also pointed out that he would consider best people those who
>>> score well during school exams
>>>
>>> There are clear arguments to show that scoring well at exams is often
>>> the results of good training and many conditions, including physical
>>> fitness, lifestyle, emotional environment and that furthermore, often the
>>> best reasoning ability cannot be captured by passing tests
>>> (in the case of people who can catch a snake, or navigate without
>>> compass or GPS etc)
>>> ie, reasoning is not always related to good exam results
>>>
>>> But those arguments aside,  I d like to bring up a well known and
>>> documented example of a woman who was
>>> very sick and left for dead.  without going too close to her, for fear
>>> of fetching a disease, people asked her at some distance
>>> if she had any dying wish,  any last minute wish  . she left a message
>>> of farewell to be delivered to her family
>>> and also requested her urine to be taken into a bottle and handed over
>>> to the first person who would cross the gate
>>> at a certain given place.  This was agreed and done
>>>
>>> *":So ... I asked them to take my urine in a bottle and give it to
>>> whomever they met first at the Boudhanath Stupa entrance. By now I was
>>> semi-conscious, but they were kind enough to do this favor for me. The
>>> person who took my urine met a man at the gate who turned out to be a
>>> Tibetan physician. He tested my urine and diagnosed that I had been
>>> poisoned with meat, prescribed some medicine and even sent me some blessing
>>> pills. My health improved dramatically and I had many good dreams. .”*
>>>
>>>
>>> Now, I know this is not your typical reasoning, and we cannot expect
>>> this from  everyone nor our future AI systems
>>> but we should keep these examples in mind when considering what is
>>> possible for an enlightened mind and beyond the ordinary
>>>
>>> She is now alive and well and in Kathmandu, if anyone wants to look her
>>> up sometimes and learn more about beyond ordinary reasoning,
>>>
>>> https://nalanda-monastery.eu/index.php/en/teachers-of-nalanda/khadro-la?start=1
>>>
>>> PDM
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 11:52 PM Dave Raggett <dsr@w3.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5 Feb 2021, at 13:11, Paola Di Maio <paoladimaio10@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> an afterthought
>>>>
>>>> in respect to mimicking how humans reason and communicate well,
>>>> each human  is different, we can generalize up to a point
>>>>
>>>> and mimicking may result in some kind of parrot engineering ....
>>>> useful to start with but nowhere near intelligence at its best
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You’re missing the big picture.  If we can successfully reproduce how
>>>> the best people reason, we will be in a strong position to improve on that
>>>> by going beyond the limits of the human brain. The more we understand, the
>>>> further and faster we can go. This is an evolutionary path that will go
>>>> very much faster than biological evolution. At the same time we can make AI
>>>> safe by ensuring that it is transparent, collaborative and embodies the
>>>> best of human values.
>>>>
>>>> Human-like AI will succeed where logic based approaches have struggled.
>>>> 500 million years of evolution is not to be dismissed so easily.
>>>>
>>>> I remember the enthusiastic claims around “5th generation computer
>>>> systems” and logic programming at the start of the 1980’s, and had plenty
>>>> of fun with the prolog language. However, the promise of logic programming
>>>> fizzled out. Today, 40 years on, much of the focus of work on knowledge
>>>> representation is still closely coupled to the mathematical model of logic,
>>>> and this is holding us all back. We need to step away and exploit the
>>>> progress in the cognitive sciences.
>>>>
>>>> I am especially impressed by how young children effortlessly learn
>>>> language, given the complexity of language, and the difficulties that adult
>>>> learners face when learning second languages. Another amazing opportunity
>>>> is to understand how some children are so much better than others when it
>>>> comes to demanding subjects like science and mathematics. Moreover, warm
>>>> empathic AI will depend on understanding how children acquire social skills.
>>>>
>>>> Let’s lift up our eyes to the big picture for human-like AI.
>>>>
>>>> Dave Raggett <dsr@w3.org> http://www.w3.org/People/Raggett
>>>> W3C Data Activity Lead & W3C champion for the Web of things
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>