Re: Joining the Internal Meetings

Nice to meet you Josh, thanks for posting. In my experience W3C  CGs are
about keeping the flame alive (whatever burns inside us). Maybe throw out
some standard if enough people/member organisations are behind it. So here
we are. I like thinking of KR for the WOT. I have done some work in IoT and
think the WpT may enable users to interact with  the IoT. Maybe there could
be standards somewhere down that line
Not sure how that fits in your vision.

I apologize for linking a relevant paper behind paywall, could share snips
if someone is interested
https://oa.mg/work/10.1007/978-3-030-80821-1_12



On Thu, Oct 12, 2023 at 9:33 PM Josh Cohen <joshco@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm Josh.  I am a CG public member, and helped set up the home assistant
> focus group.  I’m building a simple wot device / home assistant integration.
>
>
>
> I have previous experience working in standards bodies, blurb at the end
> of this email.
>
>
>
> Taking Ege's "blunt" suggestion seriously… One thing I've noticed is that
> Matter has succeeded in earning a seat on the device train in the smart
> home market, which is a really difficult thing to achieve.
>
>
>
> [image: image.jpeg]
>
>
>
> So if we put our standards wonk hat on, and recalibrate to this reality,
> what does the w3c do?
>
> I have always seen the w3c as a long term thinker.  My personal belief is
> that over time, IoT will increase its convergence with "the web".
>
> I think it makes sense to help Matter reduce the logo pile of proprietary
> technologies in current devices.
>
>
>
> How can WoT help expand the scenarios Matter is useful for?
>
>
>
> I'm only part way through the Matter specs, but the sense I am getting is
> that they are model driven and stringent, needing new models for new
> devices.  There discovery/provisioning seems slick.  This is excellent for
> commercial, consumer product that need to be rock solid.
>
>
>
> It would be interesting to know if they have a solution for hobbyist
> devices that is as slick as their solution for discovery.
>
>
>
> A hobbyist profile of Matter could take advantage of the fact that
> hobbyist or DIY devices are "running with scissors", and don't need the
> certification and top security.  They are also like blobs that don't fit
> into standardized models, though they may use common primitives like HA
> does.
>
>
>
> Perhaps a hobbyist profile of Matter uses Matter discovery, TD's for
> blobby self-describing devices, and relies on web developer/REST API for
> the rest?
>
>
>
> At this point, many hobbyist class devices are web-capable.  ESP/Arduino
> devices that can support a web server are now commodity (less than $10 USD)
>
> This means with a WoT framework, a hobbyist can write code in a manner
> spiritually similar to Rails or Django, which they are likely used to.
>
>
>
> I realize I'm speaking above my pay grade, but I am curious what others
> think.
>
>
>
> My reading of the tea leaves may not be 100%, but perhaps it is time to
> open a liaison to the Matter SDO planet, and see how WoT can help.
>
>
>
> -- blurb
>
> I began my career working on standards during HTTP/1.1, at IETF httpwg.
> My focus was on proxy servers.
>
> Co-author of Web Proxy Auto Discovery (WPAD), which browsers use to
> discover proxy servers, and at MSFT served as PM for WinInet when it was
> implemented in IE5.
>
> Co-author of GENA, which got integrated into UPNP/SSDP.
>
> MSFT Lead for standardization of WS-Management at DMTF, and later ISO.
>
> On Thu, Oct 12, 2023 at 5:56 AM Paola Di Maio <paoladimaio10@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Thank you Ege. I am sorry I did not understand the context of Carl's post
>>
>> AI KR is huge, and at these stage, this CG is about keeping track of some
>> of the interesting issues
>>
>> Let's take this as an opportunity to connect and stimulate participation
>> and interaction. As these issues intersect,  new spaces open up. We should
>> definitely talk some day, and  and ponder the emerging horizons. Until
>> then. we look forward to learn more! Best wishes with your work
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 12, 2023 at 10:41 AM Korkan, Ege <ege.korkan@siemens.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Paola,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No problem at all and sorry once again for the confusion. We have
>>> minutes available at
>>> https://github.com/w3c/wot-cg/blob/main/Minutes/2023/2023_10_02-minutes.md
>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> WoT is using semantic technologies and works with ontologies. AI has
>>> become recently relevant and some CG participants are preparing demos on AI
>>> interacting with smart devices in an environment. How knowledge
>>> representation comes into play is indeed an interesting topic. The recently
>>> announced Web Agents CG can be relevant as well since knowledge
>>> representation is a big topic there.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Ege
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *Paola Di Maio <paoladimaio10@gmail.com>
>>> *Date: *Thursday, 12. October 2023 at 11:20
>>> *To: *Korkan, Ege (T CED EWT-DE) <ege.korkan@siemens.com>
>>> *Cc: *carl mattocks <carlmattocks@gmail.com>, Luca Barbato <
>>> luca.barbato@luminem.it>, Josh Cohen <joshco@gmail.com>, Jan Romann <
>>> jan.romann@hs-emden-leer.de>, cristiano.aguzzi <
>>> cristiano.aguzzi@vaimee.com>, W3C AIKR CG <public-aikr@w3.org>
>>> *Subject: *Re: Joining the Internal Meetings
>>>
>>> Ah. I thought some folks had a secret internal meeting for our CG
>>> without inviting anyone else
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you very much for the clarification and thank you Carl for the
>>> heads up
>>>
>>> Minutes? It can be a cognitive challenge to keep up with everything that
>>> is going on .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> AI KR is horizontal and relevant to many CGs. I ll leave it to Carl to
>>> liaise with you folks on WoT matters
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At your convenience, it would be good to hear about exchange
>>> opportunities and interaction on the AI KR CG. Until then
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>>
>>> PDM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 12, 2023 at 10:12 AM Korkan, Ege <ege.korkan@siemens.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think there was a small confusion. I am guessing that Carl just wanted
>>> to relay some of the conversion we had as a follow up of WoT CG Internal
>>> Meeting [1] to the AIKR CG. That meeting and all of its follow ups are open
>>> to all WoT CG participants, which Carl is a participant of.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As for the introductions: I am co-chair of the Web of Things CG,
>>> together with Cristiano Aguzzi. I am a research scientist at Siemens Munich
>>> and focus on the Web of Things standardization, community outreach and
>>> open-source.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [1]:
>>> https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/0b0a4962-9dba-4213-903a-582509710914/20231002T170000/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> qWith best regards,
>>> Ege Korkan
>>>
>>> Siemens AG
>>> Technology
>>> Connectivity & Edge
>>> Embedded Web Technologies Germany
>>> T CED EWT-DE
>>> Otto-Hahn-Ring 6
>>> 81739 Munich, Germany
>>> ege.korkan@siemens.com
>>> www.siemens.com
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: Q1R+p3aFjJcAAAAASUVORK5CYII=]
>>> Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Jim
>>> Hagemann Snabe; Managing Board: Roland Busch, Chairman, President and Chief
>>> Executive Officer; Cedrik Neike, Matthias Rebellius, Ralf P. Thomas, Judith
>>> Wiese; Registered offices: Berlin and Munich, Germany; Commercial
>>> registries: Berlin-Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, Munich, HRB 6684;
>>> WEEE-Reg.-No. DE 23691322
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *Paola Di Maio <paola.dimaio@gmail.com>
>>> *Date: *Thursday, 12. October 2023 at 07:43
>>> *To: *carl mattocks <carlmattocks@gmail.com>
>>> *Cc: *Luca Barbato <luca.barbato@luminem.it>, Korkan, Ege (T CED
>>> EWT-DE) <ege.korkan@siemens.com>, Josh Cohen <joshco@gmail.com>, Jan
>>> Romann <jan.romann@hs-emden-leer.de>, cristiano.aguzzi <
>>> cristiano.aguzzi@vaimee.com>, W3C AIKR CG <public-aikr@w3.org>
>>> *Subject: *Re: Joining the Internal Meetings
>>>
>>> Correction-  read *what meeting*'??
>>>
>>> Luca, Josh and others in cc. As requested, please introduce yourselves
>>>
>>> and share publicly any work in relation to the CG. No secret society in
>>> this CG :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 12, 2023 at 6:04 AM Paola Di Maio <paola.dimaio@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Greetings, Carl and everyone
>>>
>>> Thanks for sharing- What meaning    *meeting*?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> @Carl: May I suggest that as a co-chair you inform members of private
>>> meetings that you may be invited to? The list nor myself were never invited
>>> (unless it was an internal meeting from another CG)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Who is Luca (we never heard from him on the list or otherwise)
>>>
>>> A secret society in the making :-)??
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Luca, please introduce yourself and share you agenda and meeting minutes
>>> publicly please
>>>
>>> and when you do so make sure that you give enough advance notice and
>>> timezone flexibility for members to join
>>>
>>> or follow up?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Look forward to learn more about your involvement with AI KR, as
>>> previously solicited
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best
>>>
>>> Paola Di Maio, Chair
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> All meetings of this CG are public and announced on this list
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If there has been a meeting, it was organized without the AI KR CG Chair
>>> or member knowledge
>>>
>>> and it is not to be considered an internal meeting. Anyone wishing to
>>> organise a meeing, are welcome to do so, provided they announce it to the
>>> list giving the opportunity for members to join
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 11, 2023 at 2:57 PM carl mattocks <carlmattocks@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> As stated at meeting - I was attempting to catch-up on the CG's progress.
>>>
>>> My broader interest is related to understanding Web of Things needs as
>>> part of a Safeguard Framework for AI KR (Artificial Intelligence
>>> Knowledge Representation)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Carl Mattocks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It was a pleasure to clarify
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 11, 2023 at 7:57 AM Luca Barbato <luca.barbato@luminem.it>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 11/10/23 13:45, Korkan, Ege wrote:
>>> > Hi all,
>>> >
>>> > Together with Cris, we wanted to ask a rather blunt but important
>>> > question. While we are trying to involve more people with the inner
>>> > workings of the CG, we should understand why you want to be involved
>>> > with it. So very simply and bluntly, why did you join the Internal
>>> > Meeting last week, what were you expecting?
>>> >
>>>
>>> In my case I wanted to see who's coming and I was looking forward to see
>>> if we could gather different communities to exchange ideas and solutions.
>>>
>>> Hopefully I'll have more time in the next months and try to gather ideas
>>> on how to get enough companies to share a works-with-wot theme since the
>>> adoption in certain fields is lagging because we need to have enough
>>> devices proving that our standard solves real problems.
>>>
>>> lu
>>>
>>>
>
> --
>
> ---
> *Josh Co*hen
>
>