Re: Minutes Re: Functional Needs Meeting 16 July 2021

Hi Jake,

I hope you had a good break. Michael is on hols with week but I would 
still like to go ahead with our meeting if you can make it?

We did meet recently and discussed your proposal further, so that was 
useful.

I'll send an agenda etc later, thanks.

Josh

> jake abma <mailto:jake.abma@gmail.com>
> Tuesday 17 August 2021 07:16
>
> Hey all,
>
> Back from vacation and ready to continue...
> Do we have a meeting this Friday and did you discuss / worked on the 
> parts from last call?
>
> Happy to hear,
> Cheers Jake
>
> Michael Cooper <mailto:cooper@w3.org>
> Friday 16 July 2021 19:21
>
> https://www.w3.org/2021/07/16-silver-functional-minutes
>
> On 16/07/2021 9:17 a.m., Joshue O'Connor wrote:
> Joshue O'Connor <mailto:joconnor@w3.org>
> Friday 16 July 2021 14:17
> Hi all,
>
> There was an issue generating minutes, they may show up here at some 
> stage:
> https://www.w3.org/2021/07/16-silver-functional-irc
>
>  here they are as text.
>
>  TOPIC: Overview of current work
>  scribe: Joshue108
>  JA: I've been working on something that lots of people seem to like
>  JA: Showed to Josh last week
>  Happy to show you Michael.
>  MC: please do
> JA: Gives overview of his work - created some new terms
> MC: How do functions and needs relate?
> JA: <explains>
> Josh: Jake will you share this deck?
> JA: Yes
> JA: Asks how far user needs should go, their granularity etc.
> Lots of variability
> Discusses intersections etc
> Mentions the goal of creating new guidelines for WCAG etc, and that 
> they are basd on requirements/outcomes
> JA: I think the terms are interchangable.
> JA, wonders what are the simple solutions are for those outcomes
> We had variability in definitions of user needs
> This is useful for helping define user outcomes
> Gives overview of intersection between user needs and functions => 
> Outcomes
> JA: I deleted many of the categorisations
> and simplified to just the high level
> and I started to fit them in.
> Demonstrating concise and clear requirements
> It an relate to WCAG but does not have to be WCAG specific
> JA: I found that when filling in I was identifying some needs being 
> too granular for our definition
> they should be moved as they represent an intersection
> Doing this sets more clear boundaries on the high level user needs we 
> are looking at
> q+ to note that this will help with intersections
> JA: Working like this helps to create boundaries
> JA: This feels like a complete, and right way of doing things.
> JA: I think if we fill in this spreadsheet it could be what we want
> It may also help with Principles
> — @Joshue108 Michael do you want to respond?
> JOC: thanks Jake, looks great to me, need to understand a bit better 
> but v promising
> MC: So I'm wondering about the high level requirements, they seem like 
> the guidelines in WCAG - will these be broken down into technology or 
> tool guidelines?
> JA: No. I'm not sure how to write these outcomes - but we need to 
> figure that out.
> JA: We need to spend some time writing these - some things can be 
> taken from WCAG etc.
> MC: We should take that from WCAG, put it into context and edit from 
> there.
> JA: My first exercise is to fill in the spread sheet, and identify 
> clear user need and user function
> then we are nearly complete
> then next exercise is to add the WCAG criteria, as an exercise at 
> intersections
> JA: This helps us identify gaps
> JOC: +1 to this as an exercise
> MC: The DB I'm working on would allow some many to many mappings.
> MC: It will be interesting to see if a certain outcome maps to many 
> sections.
> This is another dimension
> JOC: <groks where Jake is coming from with extensively mapping 
> intersections and then doing gap analysis against existing standards>
> MC: +1 to that - as well look at things like WCAG, we may find it does 
> mostly map except for things we can't place
> 13:31 That may indicate either a non essential requirement or we have 
> an incomplete list
> 13:31 MC: Suggests looking at guidelines early
> 13:33 JOC: I'd like input from Charles on this also - so we can 
> confirm that this idea as an abstraction and tool is going in the 
> right direction.
> ALso I'd like us to check, map with WCAG sooner rather than later
> MC: Sounds good -
> <Michael demonstrates some of the FAST work>
> Some of this corresponds with what Jake has
>  We need to identify 'here is what is needed to enable these needs'
>  MC: If we had a model like this, we an plug in new technologies
>  To identify new guideline
>  MC: This seems like a good candidate framework
> 13:37 JOC: I like that we potentially have a global map of 
> requirements that we can map to existing standards and identify gaps
> MC: Ok, next steps - we need something mature enough to show
> But also something that we can work on and iterate.
> MC: If the feedback shows that this is broken, we have to make sure w 
> haven't massively invested in it.
> JA: I started with Percieved, Operable
> Would like to work on personlisation..
> I'd like the group to look and add comments
> Would like to get it 80% complete
> THen we can take next steps
> MC: Jake can you complete this by next week?
> I can give it a shot.
> Then on hols
> JOC: We can review this when Jake is away
> MC: It makes sense that the rest of us can work on this.
> In Sept we can take a proposal to the Silver TF
> JA: Really want to see peoples comments
> <JakeAbma> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1POhgI_xHZtSoNbHFp3r5HYIkl6ePaP8DC5d90SZ1tF4/edit?ts=608bfa6d#gid=752043294 
>
> JOC: URI for speadsheet
> — @Joshue108 ta
> JOC: How does this work relate to the survey?
> JA: I've been through it - and have added things - some suggestions 
> are there etc
> <MichaelC> 
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eJkgXqbh7dx3uD6XAy8XAANmwfbbVZ5GKb_gbsUdkVs/edit# 
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eJkgXqbh7dx3uD6XAy8XAANmwfbbVZ5GKb_gbsUdkVs/edit#heading=h.n89ecixaq6rg 
>
> JA: WOuld like to have a draft of the spreadsheet ready
> WIthout the intersections between them all.
> Maybe too open
> Some people wanted to know where to start/stop etc
> THe boundaries now are more clear.
> rrsagent, draft minutes
> <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate 
> https://www.w3.org/2021/07/16-silver-functional-minutes.html Joshue108
>
> Thanks
>
> Josh
>
> Todd Libby <mailto:todd@knowbility.org>
> Friday 16 July 2021 10:15
> Regrets for today’s meeting.
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---------------
> Todd Libby
> Accessibility Analyst
> Knowbility
> todd@knowbility.org <mailto:todd@knowbility.org>
> https://knowbility.org


-- 
Emerging Web Technology Specialist/Accessibility (WAI/W3C)