- From: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>
- Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 12:32:37 +1000
- To: Matthew Kerwin <matthew@kerwin.net.au>
- Cc: "Eric J. Bowman" <eric@bisonsystems.net>, HTTP Working Group <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
Eric and Matthew, The discussion is welcome, but the speculation about people's motives is not. Please keep it technical and professional. Thanks, On 22 Jun 2014, at 11:16 am, Matthew Kerwin <matthew@kerwin.net.au> wrote: > Eric wrote: >> the only thing HTTP/2 is ready for is T-E, > which will only happen if, not when, the corporate interests jump on > the interoperability bandwagon. So I'm sure HTTP/2 will go to last > call without it, this is simply not the consensus view (although I > question whether this would be the case if HTTP/2 were being developed > by those who care about architecture over the corporate bottom line > for the next quarter). > > Speaking of T-E, and non-corporate interests, I've cobbled together > something based on one of my original proposals for encoded/compressed > DATA frames, taking advantage of the new extensibility model: > <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kerwin-http2-encoded-data/> > > If there's interest I'm happy to hand it over to the wg, or to shuffle > the ids up into the experimental ranges and keep it unofficial. > > -- > Matthew Kerwin > http://matthew.kerwin.net.au/ > On 22 Jun 2014, at 10:21 am, Eric J. Bowman <eric@bisonsystems.net> wrote: > Yes, from the outside looking in, it's quite clear that this is the > first major Internet protocol being driven by corporate concerns rather > than architecture. Focusing on the requirements of the next product- > release cycle, to the exclusion of any concerns about how the Web would > have collapsed under its own weight without intermediaries, quite > naturally leads to the aversion we're seeing to T-E or anything else > that slows down and fattens up the protocol in the name of universal > interoperability. > > The corporate concern is to go faster, my concern as a freelancer is > free scaling, which we don't see with lesser corporate-driven protocols > like WebSocket -- obviously, to me, a result of being on port 80 in a > way which excludes intermediary participation. WS costs far more to > deploy than HTTP/1.1, and if this winds up being the case with HTTP/2 > then it'll be just as "corporate" a solution as WS and HTTP/1.1 will be > with us for a good while to come. > > I'd say this one comes down to money. The big players have a financial > stake in being able to use their size to dominate the market; the rest > of us have loved HTTP caching for 15+ years now, because it levels the > playing field. This issue manifests itself in "working with proxies", > but I'd rather not kid myself about the real motivation for this break > with the time-proven Taylor-school approach to Web architecture. I > can't stress enough, if it ain't broke, don't fix it; intermediaries > were the fix to what was broken before, why would anyone want to do > away with it in this day and age for architectural reasons? -- Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/
Received on Monday, 23 June 2014 02:33:10 UTC