- From: der Mouse <mouse@Rodents-Montreal.ORG>
- Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 18:28:14 +0000
- To: apps-discuss@ietf.org, websec@ietf.org, kitten@ietf.org, http-auth@ietf.org, ietf-http-wg@w3.org, saag@ietf.org
>> * Certificates do not authenticate the user. They authenticate a >> device. > I don't think they do that exactly either. The client cert is > generally public, its private key is a secret like a password, but > one that's too hard to memorize. Quite aside from memorizability, few-to-no humans are capable of performing the cryptographic operations (large-number arithmetic, usually) necessary to carry out certificate operations, at least not with the required levels of reliability. (I can do multi-hundred-digit arithmetic, yes, but not nearly either fast enough or free enough of mistakes to be useful for the purpose.) Certificates, at best, determine that some device which is capable of performing the cryptographic operations has been given access to the corresponding private data. This is close enough to authenticating a user to be useful for many purposes, but it is not the same thing. Of course, the same is true of passwords. All passwords demonstrate is that some device capable of injecting data into the comm channel in question knows the password. But passwords rarely lull people into forgetting the difference. > For most systems, the vast majority of 'no's are not actual attacks. Are you sure of that? There are an awful lot of doorknob-rattlers out there. Most of the login failures I see on my machines actually _are_ attackers poking to see if I've made stupid mistakes. > Yeah. How did the user select their password for the website in the > first place, if not by an HTML form POST? > If it was good enough for the initial sign up, why should the web > designer use something other than HTML form POST for the regular > login? For all that that's rhetorical, there is an answer: because one occurs only once while the other occurs many times. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
Received on Thursday, 16 December 2010 18:33:00 UTC