- From: Ben Laurie <ben@algroup.co.uk>
- Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:09:02 +0000
- To: Paul Leach <paulle@microsoft.com>
- Cc: Dave Kristol <dmk@research.bell-labs.com>, http-wg@cuckoo.hpl.hp.com
Paul Leach wrote: > > > From: Ben Laurie[SMTP:ben@algroup.co.uk] > > A replayable Digest is by no means as bad as Basic: > > > > 1. The replay is likely to be time-limited in any sensible > > implementation, unlike in Basic. > > > > 2. The replay is only applicable to a single URL, unlike Basic. > > > > 3. The attacker is likely to have already seen the content, in the > > process of stealing the material necessary for the replay. > > > If you can do the above, then you've got _some_ replay prevention. You can. > Dave is arguing that no replay protection is necessary. I'm willing to > discuss how much is needed, but I'm tired of statements about "eliminating > plaintext is all we have to do". (I'll remind everyone that even Basic > _doen't_ use plaintext -- it uses a Base64 encoding.) Agreed. > I also do not believe that we can rely on "any sensible implementation". > When it comes to security, we need to require sensible impllementations, > because it is well proven that even well intentioned implentors frequently > fail to acheive "sensible implementations". I'll limit the obvious snipe to this sentence :-) > That means we need to precisely describe the algorithms for at least one > sensible implementaiton. Fair enough, but I don't think we can go so far as to mandate the algorithm, because... > Finally, I believe that if we can solve the pipelining problem, then we can > solve the replay problem. ...this, I believe, can only be solved by requiring servers to keep state, which is a Bad Thing. I have no objection to those servers that want to (and can) doing this, but I really don't see the point - if you are _that_ concerned about the content, you should've SSLed it (because the Bad Guy who is failing to get usephul stuph for a replay attack is getting the content anyway). Cheers, Ben. -- Ben Laurie |Phone: +44 (181) 735 0686|Apache Group member Freelance Consultant |Fax: +44 (181) 735 0689|http://www.apache.org and Technical Director|Email: ben@algroup.co.uk |Apache-SSL author A.L. Digital Ltd, |http://www.algroup.co.uk/Apache-SSL London, England. |"Apache: TDG" http://www.ora.com/catalog/apache
Received on Tuesday, 20 January 1998 15:12:16 UTC