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Re: Clarify that documents with DOCTYPE but without markup declaration are not subject to validation

From: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 19:06:55 +0100
To: Jirka Kosek <jirka@kosek.cz>
Cc: xml-editor@w3.org
Message-ID: <20140121190655252061.1d168fda@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Regarding http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#proc-types, then it explains 
well on what basis to report errors:

[Definition: [ … snip … ] To accomplish this, validating XML processors 
MUST read and process the entire DTD and all external parsed entities 
referenced in the document.

Leif Halvard SIlli

Leif Halvard Silli, Tue, 21 Jan 2014 18:30:39 +0100:
> Jirka Kosek, Tue, 21 Jan 2014 15:17:08 +0100:
>> On 19.1.2014 21:29, Leif Halvard Silli wrote:
>>> Therefore, my proposal is to extract rules or guidance for what to do 
>>> when the DOCTYPE declaration points to no markup declaration and place 
>>> this into the 6th edition of XML. (Or to put it differently: define 
>>> what to do when the DOCTYPE lacks an internal or external DTD.) 
>> I don't think this makes sense. Whether validation is done is decided
>> not by document itself, but by processor you use -- in terms of XML 1.0
>> spec you can use validating or non-validating processor.
>> (http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#proc-types)
>> If some tool triggers validating mode on encountering <!DOCTYPE> then I
>> suggest appraoching developers of such tool and ask for some option that
>> will allow control of such behaviour.
>> I don't think that behaviour you describe is generic and is implied by
>> statements in XML 1.0 spec.
> But they cannot report validity errors when the lack anything to 
> validate it against.
> The behavior of xmllint is OK: When it fails to find a DTD, it reports 
> that the *process* known as validation failed: “validity error : 
> Validation failed: no DTD found !“ (even if I think it could delete the 
> phrase "validity error").
> However, I have another XML tool which, in face of the HTML5 doctype, 
> reports an error for every single element or attribute the document 
> contains. And btw, that same tool shows a behavior similar to that of 
> xmllint if I use the SYSTEM variant of the HTML5 doctype - <!DOCTYPE 
> html SYSTEM "about:legacy-compat">.
> A document that lacks DTD is simply ”not valid” 
> <http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#sec-prolog-dtd>. And, as not valid, 
> whether it has validation errors is a question that is out of the 
> question.
> Leif Halvard Silli
Received on Tuesday, 21 January 2014 18:07:28 UTC

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