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Re: Clarify that documents with DOCTYPE but without markup declaration are not subject to validation

From: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 19:06:55 +0100
To: Jirka Kosek <jirka@kosek.cz>
Cc: xml-editor@w3.org
Message-ID: <20140121190655252061.1d168fda@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Regarding http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#proc-types, then it explains 
well on what basis to report errors:

]]
[Definition: [ … snip … ] To accomplish this, validating XML processors 
MUST read and process the entire DTD and all external parsed entities 
referenced in the document.
[[

Leif Halvard SIlli

Leif Halvard Silli, Tue, 21 Jan 2014 18:30:39 +0100:
> Jirka Kosek, Tue, 21 Jan 2014 15:17:08 +0100:
>> On 19.1.2014 21:29, Leif Halvard Silli wrote:
>>> Therefore, my proposal is to extract rules or guidance for what to do 
>>> when the DOCTYPE declaration points to no markup declaration and place 
>>> this into the 6th edition of XML. (Or to put it differently: define 
>>> what to do when the DOCTYPE lacks an internal or external DTD.) 
>> 
>> I don't think this makes sense. Whether validation is done is decided
>> not by document itself, but by processor you use -- in terms of XML 1.0
>> spec you can use validating or non-validating processor.
>> (http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#proc-types)
>> 
>> If some tool triggers validating mode on encountering <!DOCTYPE> then I
>> suggest appraoching developers of such tool and ask for some option that
>> will allow control of such behaviour.
>> 
>> I don't think that behaviour you describe is generic and is implied by
>> statements in XML 1.0 spec.
> 
> But they cannot report validity errors when the lack anything to 
> validate it against.
> 
> The behavior of xmllint is OK: When it fails to find a DTD, it reports 
> that the *process* known as validation failed: “validity error : 
> Validation failed: no DTD found !“ (even if I think it could delete the 
> phrase "validity error").
> 
> However, I have another XML tool which, in face of the HTML5 doctype, 
> reports an error for every single element or attribute the document 
> contains. And btw, that same tool shows a behavior similar to that of 
> xmllint if I use the SYSTEM variant of the HTML5 doctype - <!DOCTYPE 
> html SYSTEM "about:legacy-compat">.
> 
> A document that lacks DTD is simply ”not valid” 
> <http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#sec-prolog-dtd>. And, as not valid, 
> whether it has validation errors is a question that is out of the 
> question.
> 
> Leif Halvard Silli
Received on Tuesday, 21 January 2014 18:07:28 UTC

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