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RE: AFTF requirements, pre-2003/01/31 telcon

From: John J. Barton <John_Barton@hpl.hp.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 18:22:08 -0800
Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20030203163659.01aef698@hplex1.hpl.hp.com>
To: "Martin Gudgin" <mgudgin@microsoft.com>, <noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com>
Cc: <jones@research.att.com>, "Rich Salz" <rsalz@datapower.com>, "Sanjiva Weerawarana" <sanjiva@watson.ibm.com>, <xml-dist-app@w3.org>

At 03:26 PM 2/3/2003 -0800, Martin Gudgin wrote:
>Well, I'm not certain that a synthetic infoset is EXACTLY what I want,
>because, ideally, I'd like to be able to serialize my infoset using XML
>1.0 + namespaces.

Ok then I am against your infoset requirement.  I don't believe that
XML will be able to do the job at this level.

>Not that I'd want to do that in the general case, because one point of
>this exercise is to allow binary data and other stuff that doesn't fit
>well into XML 1.0 serializations to be serialized efficiently...

  I hope the design aims for the general case since we already have
a solution for a single, short XML document. So again the infoset
can't be a requirement since it doesn't apply to the general case.

>But certainly the infoset you would get by parsing the SOAP envelope, as
>is, is not the infoset I want.

Ok, so now I am complete confused.  The likely outcome from the AFTF
effort would be a specification that would lead to a software component
in a SOAP engine preceding XML parsing.  The component would pull
bits off the wire and prepare them for application level processing.  What
the application developer sees after XML parsing would be an object that
represents the wire data.  Such a developer would process this object starting
with the root of the SOAP message. As one walked through the SOAP message
some XML would be processed and some of it would refer to other data,
attachments, by URI.  The API for processing the message would seamlessly
allow access to all of the data.

Some of parts of this object would be an infoset; some parts would not.   You
don't want the part of the object that would be within the infoset 
definition and
you don't want the rest.  So I don't think you want what the AFTF is trying to
define!

>Gudge
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John J. Barton [mailto:John_Barton@hpl.hp.com]
> > Sent: 03 February 2003 22:01
> > To: noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com
> > Cc: jones@research.att.com; Martin Gudgin; Rich Salz; Sanjiva
> > Weerawarana; xml-dist-app@w3.org
> > Subject: RE: AFTF requirements, pre-2003/01/31 telcon
> >
> >
> > So Martin you want to define a synthetic infoset
> > (http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-infoset/#intro.synthetic)
> > for the attachment specification?
> >
> > At 03:35 PM 2/3/2003 -0500, noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com wrote:
> > >John Barton wrote:
> > >
> > > > As far as I can tell what Martin is asking for is what
> > > > we might call a "manifest".  By manifest I mean an XML
> > > > representation of the package metadata accessible by SOAP
> > processing
> > > > code.  At one point we considered this in SwA but decided that it
> > > > would be better layered separate from the package.
> > Conceptually the
> > > > manifest allows a software component to preprocess the message
> > > > for completeness and security independent of the
> > > > message semantics in the same way that a shipping
> > > > manifest works on physical goods.  I believe that the
> > > > ebXML folks had a manifest.
> > >
> > >I'm 90% sure that Gudge wants the attachment data as well as
> > metadata
> > >integrated into the Envelope infoset model.
> > >
> > > > If this isn't what Martin meant, then hit delete now ;-)
> > >
> > >Uh...
> > >
> > > > John.
> > >
> > >Noah
> > >
> > >------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >Noah Mendelsohn                              Voice: 1-617-693-4036
> > >IBM Corporation                                Fax: 1-617-693-8676
> > >One Rogers Street
> > >Cambridge, MA 02142
> > >------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > ______________________________________________________
> > John J. Barton          email:  John_Barton@hpl.hp.com
> > http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/John_Barton/index.htm
> > MS 1U-17  Hewlett-Packard Labs
> > 1501 Page Mill Road              phone: (650)-236-2888
> > Palo Alto CA  94304-1126         FAX:   (650)-857-5100
> >
> >

______________________________________________________
John J. Barton          email:  John_Barton@hpl.hp.com
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/John_Barton/index.htm
MS 1U-17  Hewlett-Packard Labs
1501 Page Mill Road              phone: (650)-236-2888
Palo Alto CA  94304-1126         FAX:   (650)-857-5100
Received on Monday, 3 February 2003 21:24:02 GMT

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