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Re: issue 168 proposal: xsi:type of external references in Encodi ng (fwd)

From: Jacek Kopecky <jacek@systinet.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 20:36:50 +0100 (CET)
To: <noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com>
cc: <xml-dist-app@w3.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0112202032460.19692-100000@mail.idoox.com>
 Noah, from the point of view of the XML Schema type system, the
type would be something binary - with the value space of any
sequence of octets and the lexical space not important since it's
not exactly in an XML message. 8-)
 I know it doesn't make much sense to give xsi:type to an
external document, but imagine it's a file containing the first
million digits of pi, it could very easily be decimal.
 So I think that the default, should we specify any, would be the
binary type I've described above, but I don't like no_type.
 Regards,

                   Jacek Kopecky

                   Senior Architect, Systinet (formerly Idoox)
                   http://www.systinet.com/



On Thu, 20 Dec 2001 noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com wrote:

 > I can see your point, but what do we say about, for example, an href that
 > resolves to a GIF file?  Does it have a type?  Named how and by whom?  If
 > not, is there some default type that effectively means...this is the type
 > name for things where I don't know much about the type.
 >
 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
 > Noah Mendelsohn                                    Voice: 1-617-693-4036
 > Lotus Development Corp.                            Fax: 1-617-693-8676
 > One Rogers Street
 > Cambridge, MA 02142
 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > Jacek Kopecky <jacek@systinet.com>
 > 12/20/01 12:29 PM
 >
 >
 >         To:     Noah Mendelsohn/CAM/Lotus@Lotus
 >         cc:     <moreau@crf.canon.fr>, <Mike.Champion@SoftwareAG-USA.com>,
 > <xml-dist-app@w3.org>
 >         Subject:        Re: issue 168 proposal: xsi:type of external references in Encodi  ng
 > (fwd)
 >
 >
 > Noah,
 > I don't like the last part. The issue arose because SOAP
 > Encoding requires all the values to be typed and it was not clear
 > what the types of externally referenced data were. Now you're
 > proposing "untyped" values. If we want to go that way, I think we
 > don't need any text like the one below, we'd just need to relax
 > the requirement on values being typed.
 > See terminology bullet #1 and rule bullets #2 and #3 in Part 2,
 > section 4.1 [1].
 > Regards,
 >
 > Jacek Kopecky
 >
 > Senior Architect, Systinet (formerly Idoox)
 > http://www.systinet.com/
 >
 > [1] http://www.w3.org/2000/xp/Group/1/08/29/soap12-part2.html#encrules
 >
 >
 >
 > On Thu, 20 Dec 2001 noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com wrote:
 >
 > > Proposed further clarifications set off in >> ..<<:
 > >
 > > "This specification does not constrain the type of resource that can be
 > > referenced through the <att>href</att> attribute information item. In
 > the
 > > case
 > > of an XML resource, the type MAY be defined by the <att>xsi:type</att>
 > > attribute information item >>on the referenced resource<< or by an
 > > associated
 > > XML Schema >>(note, however that schema validation of referenced
 > resources
 > > is
 > > OPTIONAL)<<. For non-XML resources, other typing means >>MAY<< be used,
 > > although the specification of such typing means is outside the scope of
 > > this
 > > specification.  >>When no such type information is available, the
 > > referenced
 > > resource is considered to be 'untyped'.<<"
 > >
 > > I'm not 100% comfortable with the last part, but if we're mapping from
 > > serializations to graphs, and if graph nodes are generally typed, we
 > have
 > > to say something about the interpretation in the case where no type
 > > information is available.  I'm more or less convinced that the other
 > > changes proposed above are desireable.
 > >
 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
 > > Noah Mendelsohn                                    Voice: 1-617-693-4036
 > > Lotus Development Corp.                            Fax: 1-617-693-8676
 > > One Rogers Street
 > > Cambridge, MA 02142
 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > > "Jean-Jacques Moreau" <moreau@crf.canon.fr>
 > > Sent by: xml-dist-app-request@w3.org
 > > 12/20/01 07:51 AM
 > >
 > >
 > >         To:     "Champion Mike" <Mike.Champion@SoftwareAG-USA.com>
 > >         cc:     xml-dist-app <xml-dist-app@w3.org>
 > >         Subject:        Re: issue 168 proposal: xsi:type of external
 > references in Encodi       ng
 > >   (fwd)
 > >
 > >
 > > Mike, thanks for your input. I would suggest further amendments to your
 > > text,
 > > and in particular removing the second sentence since typing information
 > > may be
 > > provided outside the target resource, for example directly within the
 > SOAP
 > > enveloppe, even for non-XML resources albeit in a non-standard fashion:
 > >
 > > "This specification does not constrain the type of resource that can be
 > > referenced through the <att>href</att> attribute information item. In
 > the
 > > case
 > > of an XML resource, the type MAY be defined by the <att>xsi:type</att>
 > > attribute information item or by an associated XML Schema. For non-XML
 > > resources, other typing means need to be used, although the
 > specification
 > > of
 > > such typing means is outside the scope of this specification."
 > >
 > > Jean-Jacques.
 > >
 > > "Champion, Mike" wrote:
 > >
 > > > Here's a quick attempt at translating it into spec-ese:
 > > >
 > > > "The SOAP 1.2 specification does not constrain the type of resource
 > > > referenced by the href attribute. It is the responsibility of the
 > target
 > > > resource to define any type information.  In the case of XML, the type
 > > can
 > > > be defined by an XML schema associated with the target resource, or by
 > > the
 > > > xsi:type information item.  For non-XML target resources, other means
 > to
 > > > define the type will have to be provided outside the SOAP framework."
 > > >
 > > > Use, revise, or ignore as you see fit ...
 > > >
 > >
 > >
 > >
 >
 >
 >
Received on Thursday, 20 December 2001 14:36:53 UTC

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