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RE: [Fwd: text/xml for SOAP (and XP) considered harmful]

From: James Snell <jsnell@lemoorenet.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:36:38 -0800
To: <dick@8760.com>, "christopher ferris" <chris.ferris@east.sun.com>, <ebxml-transport@lists.ebxml.org>, "XP-PUBLIC" <xml-dist-app@w3.org>
Cc: <dale.kutnick@metagroup.com>, <howard.rubin@metagroup.com>, <Will.Zachman@metagroup.com>, <Aaron.Zornes@metagroup.com>, <larry.deboever@metagroup.com>
Message-ID: <FNEFKGCOPGCFLMCBIIIBCEHNCEAA.jsnell@lemoorenet.com>
I believe that it is a safe assumption to say that Zachman is speaking from
ignorance of ebXML more than anything else.  There is truly precious little
difference between ebXML and BizTalk as far as the architecture and
underlying technologies as concerned, anybody who has taken the time to
actually study and learn both should see that.  I personally would not
assign much weight, if any at all to Zachman's comments.

- James

-----Original Message-----
From: xml-dist-app-request@w3.org [mailto:xml-dist-app-request@w3.org]On
Behalf Of Dick Brooks
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 10:22 AM
To: christopher ferris; ebxml-transport@lists.ebxml.org; XP-PUBLIC; Dick
Brooks
Cc: dale.kutnick@metagroup.com; howard.rubin@metagroup.com;
Will.Zachman@metagroup.com; Aaron.Zornes@metagroup.com;
larry.deboever@metagroup.com
Subject: RE: [Fwd: text/xml for SOAP (and XP) considered harmful]


An e-mail was recently sent to the ebXML transport and packaging group list
server that referenced an article written by Mary Jo Foley, of ZDNet News
and released on 12/12/2000. The article contained quotes from Meta Groups
Will Zachman, which I believe deserve a response.

Regarding Will Zacman's comments in,
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/zd/20001212/tc/microsoft_sun_in_new_clash_1.htm
l
which reads:

   "I think they (Microsoft) will have real traction with this product,"
said
   Meta Group vice president Will Zachman. "Microsoft's story on this (XML)
   front is much more coherent than any other companies have to offer.
...The
   only real alternative to BizTalk is, ebXML and it's lame. It's just Sun
   and a bunch of bureaucrats backing it.

One has to wonder what Mr. Zachman means by referring to ebXML as lame.
It would be beneficial to those of us designing/developing/implementing
ebXML to know precisely what areas of ebXML are "lame" in his opinion.  He
seems to have some insight into ebXML that is NOT shared by other industry
analysts, ref: recent notes from AMR and Gartner Group regarding ebXML
(cited below). The term "lame" never appears in either Gartner Group nor AMR
reports, however there are some facts which Gartner Group and AMR found in
their research that Mr. Zachman either overlooked or was unaware of.

FACT:

ebXML's proof of concept this week in San Francisco involved the following
vendors:
Cisco, Fujistu, IBM, Interwoven, IPNet, Netfish Technologies, NTT
Communications, Savvion, Sterling Commerce, Sun Microsystems, TIE, Viquity,
and XMLSolutions.

Editorial Comment: Note the broad industry support. This is hardly what I
consider "a bunch of bureaucrats".

FACT:

In September of this year, members of the Global Commerce Initiative (GCI),
representing 40 major manufacturers and eight trade associations, or 850,000
companies worldwide, announced intent to use ebXML as the backbone for their
new data exchange standard for B2B trade in the Consumer Goods industry.

Editorial: Apparently the GCI consortium doesn't think ebXML is lame.

FACT:

Gartner Group's Healthcare division released a tactical guideline on
12/12/2000 that encourages companies to REQUIRE
vendors to support EDIINT and ebXML in their RFP's ref:

1. Requirements for Completing the Digital Dial Tone, Technology, T-12-6803,
W. Rishel, Research Note, 12 December 2000
2. Solutions to Complete the Digital Dial Tone, Tactical Guidelines,
TG-12-6804, W. Rishel, Research Note, 12 December 2000

FACT:

AMR issued a research note with very positive overtones regarding ebXML's
progress, ref:
EBXML:  THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING
http://www.amrresearch.com/ets/alerts/001213etsstory5.asp

OBSERVATION:

Mr. Zachman's "emotional" assessment of ebXML, calling it "lame", has had a
pejorative affect on my opinion of Meta Group. I encourage Mr. Zachman/Meta
Group to provide the ebXML TR&P group with a list of technical issues which
cause him/Meta Group to hold this opinion.

Sincerely,

Dick Brooks (ebXML TR&P workgroup participant and ebXML's Liaison to W3C XML
Protocol Activity)
Group 8760
110 12th Street North
Birmingham, AL 35203
dick@8760.com
205-250-8053
Fax: 205-250-8057
http://www.8760.com/

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Received on Saturday, 16 December 2000 15:40:58 GMT

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