W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > xml-dist-app@w3.org > December 2000

RE: SOAP and ebXML

From: Krishna Sankar <ksankar@cisco.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 17:25:03 -0800
To: <dick@8760.com>, "Satish Thatte" <satisht@microsoft.com>, <john_ibbotson@uk.ibm.com>
Cc: <xml-dist-app@w3.org>
Message-ID: <NABBJDOPDKGCDCNBNEDOIECMDCAA.ksankar@cisco.com>
Dick,

	I agree with your observation about the relative position of ebXML, XP et
al in the layering scheme.

	On the convergence topic, the fourth dimension (in addition to conceptual,
political & technical) is the Timeline. ebXML Phase 1 will be delivered by
Feb-May 2001 and XP is slated for 2002. Hence my comment about convergence
during ebXML Phase 2.

	On the other hand, even now we have a lot of cross pollination between the
two groups. And as David Clay suggested, the members of the XP group (who
hasn't yet looked at the ebXML specs) should review the ebXML specs
(especially the TRP), participate and offer suggestions. We can then carry
that knowledge to the XP specs as well.

	In short, at a pragmatic level, we can look for alignment and
cross-pollination now (something like the parallel play children do when
they are under 4 years or so ;-)) and a possible convergence somewhere in
the middle of next year. For anything else, we would need to overcome huge
inertia - including promised deliverables by the various groups.

	cheers

-----Original Message-----
From: xml-dist-app-request@w3.org [mailto:xml-dist-app-request@w3.org]On
Behalf Of Dick Brooks
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 4:49 PM
To: Satish Thatte; 'Krishna Sankar'; john_ibbotson@uk.ibm.com
Cc: xml-dist-app@w3.org; Dick Brooks
Subject: RE: SOAP and ebXML


All the discussion about convergence between XP and ebXML has helped me
understand the different perceptions of XP, ebXML and how the two relate or
could possibly converge. Very helpful discussion.

There's nothing I can add to what John, David, Brian, Henry, Satish, Ed and
others have already stated regarding the possibilities for
convergence/alignment between ebXML and XP. The idea to converge SOAP/ebXML
goes back quite awhile (Don Box are you out here?). Don and I had some
e-mail exchanges on this very topic as far back as February. Satish and I
had a similar exchange in August.

I believe an overwhelming majority of people agree that convergence is good,
however there are differing viewpoints of what convergence means.

I believe convergence must occur at three levels between XP and ebXML:

- Conceptual
- Technical
- Political

Conceptually I think of the Internet Protocols layering as a good model. For
example,
the internet protocols IP, TCP and FTP have a very interesting parallel to
MIME, XP and ebXML,
consider this abbreviated excerpt from the OSI model showing Internet
protocols layering and my
correlation to ebXML, XP, etc.:

    FTP---->ebXML
    TCP---->XP
     IP---->MIME
Ethernet--->HTTP

In the above depiction each lower layer provides services (and a foundation)
for a higher layer. FTP depends on TCP which depends on IP. This type of
arrangement is what I believe people would like to see happen with a
converged (XP/ebXML) standard. Speak now or forever hold your peace if I'm
wrong.

I believe that in order for the groups to move forward on convergence we
must agree on a conceptual model which defines the  responsibilities and
services provided at each layer. This will enable us to define the
requirements and technical specifications of each layer. For example,
somewhere along the line somebody said IP would not provide reliable
delivery, the upper layer, TCP, adds reliability onto IP. Likewise in a
converged solution ebXML would build on the services of XP to deliver more
robust functionality.

After all the conceptual models are completed, requirements gathered and
technical specs written comes the easy part, writing the code (no stones
please it's intended to be humor). However, in order to begin any
discussion/design the business and political issues are addressed FIRST, for
example:

- Who owns Intellectual property rights (licensing)
- Who owns change control (governance); Which standards body "controls" the
specs
- Can individual "layers" be controlled by different standard bodies
- Vendor Certification for compliance (interoperability testing)
- I'm sure there are lots more, but these come to mind

IMHO, we must address the political/business issues FIRST so that we can
proceed with confidence into the Conceptual and Technical efforts.


Sorry for the long message, I hope you find it helpful.

Dick Brooks
Group 8760
110 12th Street North
Birmingham, AL 35203
dick@8760.com
205-250-8053
Fax: 205-250-8057
http://www.8760.com/

InsideAgent - Empowering e-commerce solutions
Received on Friday, 8 December 2000 20:24:39 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Monday, 7 December 2009 10:58:57 GMT