W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-xsl-fo@w3.org > December 2010

Re: Schema noise.

From: Tony Graham <Tony.Graham@MenteithConsulting.com>
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2010 17:56:50 +0000
To: www-xsl-fo@w3.org
Message-ID: <8739qaokd9.fsf@takai.menteithconsulting.com>
On Mon, Dec 06 2010 14:49:26 +0000, dave.pawson@gmail.com wrote:
> On 6 December 2010 14:38, Grosso, Paul <pgrosso@ptc.com> wrote:
>>> Two uses for a  schema.
>>> 1. When writing an fo tree I only need what is reasonable/implemented.
>> Given inheritance, it is reasonable to have any property on any
>> (non-empty) element.
> Lets just differ on that one Paul.

I think you're using different yardsticks for 'reasonable': because
inheritance exists, it's reasonable to Paul that it works everywhere;
because including inheritable properties clutters schema-directed
editing, it's not always reasonable to Dave.

>   When I want editor help to write an fo file
> I don't want all the inheritance elements presented.

It's becoming hard for me to separate where you're finding fault with
concepts in XSL (e.g., property inheritance), the way the spec is
written (e.g., whether or not there's parameter entity declarations), or
the act of authoring XSL FO in a schema-directed editor.

You use property inheritance but you don't like it because of what it
does to the editing experience?  Isn't that then a marketing opportunity
for a better XSL FO editor rather than a fault with the spec?

The ultimate editing experience that hides the inheritable properties is
one that hides all the details of the XML and, in some products, hides
or barely mentions that it's based on XSL FO.  See, for example,
http://www.inventivedesigners.com/products/scriptura/design: the
'Business' tab shows an attractive GUI and no XML, and the 'Technical'
tab has 'XML, XSL-FO driven' about a quarter of the way down the list.
(I actually had another vendor in mind as the example of not showing
that they used XSL FO, but I couldn't find any mention of XSL on their
website or in their webhelp, so the only proof that I have that they use
or used XSL FO is a conversation with their product manager at Tekom
last year.)

With such an editor, you don't need to worry about inherited properties
because you never get to see whether the FO it produces uses inheritance
or not.

I don't know that that level of GUIness is what you'd what to use, but
would a better editor ease some of your frustration that every property
can be present on every FO element?


Tony Graham                         Tony.Graham@MenteithConsulting.com
Director                                  W3C XSL FO SG Invited Expert
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Received on Monday, 6 December 2010 17:57:23 UTC

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