WS Description WG telcon

1 Feb 2007

See also: IRC log


Charlton Baretto, Adobe Systems
Allen Brookes, Rogue Wave Software
Roberto Chinnici, Sun Microsystems
Jacek Kopecky, DERI Innsbruck at the Leopold-Franzens-Universitšt Innsbruck, Austria
Philippe Le Hegaret, W3C
Jonathan Marsh, Co-chair/WSO2
Monica Martin, Sun Microsystems
Jean-Jacques Moreau, Canon
Gilbert Pilz, BEA Systems
Arthur Ryman, IBM
Asir Vedamuthu, Microsoft
Youenn Fablet, Canon
Tony Rogers, Co-chair/Computer Associates


<plh> Namespace qualified elements tend to produce messages whose interpretation is less ambiguous than those with unqualified elements. The use of unqualified elements is therefore discouraged.


Minutes approved

Review of Action items [.1].

?         2006-11-30: [interop] John Kaputin to create a test case 
                      with "required=false". 
?         2006-12-14: [interop] Jonathan to fix transferCodings - 
                      add control group

?         2006-09-21: Jonathan to check periodically that SPARQL has 
                      added schemaLocation.
?         2006-12-14: plh to come up with a more detailed proposal for 
                      CR112 if possible
?         2007-01-04: Paul to report back on which test cases in the 
                      WSDL test suite fail the basic patterns, with
                      suggestions on how to address the issues.
?         2007-01-11: Jean-Jacques to provide more analysis on how 
                      difficult it would be deal with a Policy that 
                      only contains an MTOM policy assertion 
DONE [.3] 2007-01-25: Jonathan to forward comments to the author of 
                      the MTOM charter. 
DONE [.4] 2007-01-25: Jean-Jacques to develop more concrete suggestions 
                      for expansion of the charter for the XML-P group. 
DONE [.5] 2007-01-25: Roberto to suggest more concrete wording for the 
                      spec for CR145.

Current Editorial Action Items

Note: Editorial AIs associated with LC issues recorded at [.2].

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/#actions
[.2] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/5/cr-issues/actions_owner.html
[.3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ws-cg/2007Jan/0015.html
[.4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ws-desc/2007Jan/0015.html
[.5] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2007Jan/0201.html

One-Way SOAP

Jonathan: JJ, do you prefer to send your comments yourself or through the WG?

JJ: the latter sounds good to me.

Jonathan: ok, sent.

WSDL 1.1 identifiers

Jonathan: any comments?

Arthur: I reviewed an earlier draft?

Jonathan: do you want to see if any was broken since you last looked?

<charlton> WSDL 1.1 element identifiers document published by WS-Policy WG:http://www.w3.org/TR/wsdl11elementidentifiers/

ACTION: Arthur to review the WSDL 1.1 identifier spec [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/01-ws-desc-minutes.html#action01]

Issue 145 (cont'd)

Jonathan: we were about to limit the scope last week but wanted Arthur's position
... also, I've proposed an amendment

Roberto: I like it
... would prefer that the namespace be explicitely mentionned

Arthur: is it clear enough for you to implement?

Jonathan: can you not confirm that yourself?
... my stylesheet implement has limits as to its exploring depth

Arthur: in the type section, if see a schema or xs:import, those components get included

Roberto: true for WSDL include

Arthur: not WSDL import (namespace issue)?
... the only things we exclude are xs:import in an included schema
... edge case: we allowed top level xs schema with no top level namespace (issue 45)
... so, we would include those components
... they would all endup in the global no-namespace schema
... so non ambiguous

Roberto: I agree

PROPOSAL: Roberto's proposal amended by Jonathan email from 31/1/7, plus some editorial license

RESOLUTION: Roberto's proposal amended by Jonathan email from 31/1/7, plus some editorial license

Issue 117

Jonathan: a bit controversial last week

Jacek: even if we use the flag, it would not go to LC

Jonathan: I would be prepared to argue that; don't want to go back to LC

Philippe: it is a change, no doubt, by the letter would have to go to LC, but negative reactions are likely to be low, so would support this option in front of the director

JJ: would prefer to hold resolution until Youenn is back next week

Jonathan: ok, but would like to continue discussion a little bit so we weed out the options
... don't like options which don't allow people to %-escape things if they wish
... what are people's preferences?

Jacek: 3 options: 1. no encoding; 2. full encoding; 3. partial encoding
... 1. no option for Jonathan
... 2. not an option for some
... so 3. looks like the easy option

Jonathan: citing a parameter allows it's name to be changed; this is orthogonal to escaping
... often I would like to be able to encode
... option 1 (as per the agenda, not Jacek's above) sounds better to me

<Roberto> +1 for option 1 in the agenda

STRAWMAN: option 1 (from the agenda)

Jonathan: I suggested a syntax; but the default should be encoded; so # before a token to indicate raw instead
... amenable to using a bracket instead
... which character should be encoded? In my proposal for option 3, very restricted. Maybe I should...

<scribe> ACTION: Jonathan to provide an enhanced option 1 for issue 117 by next week, using bits from the other proposals as indicated above [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/01-ws-desc-minutes.html#action02]

Issue 143

Philippe: should use Transfer-encoding instead of Content-encoding

Jonathan: wonder if Dave Orchard thought about other uses than zip

Philippe: Transfer-encoding is a section in the HTTP spec, so covers both

Jonathan: should go to Transfer-coding header
... close today by moving to Content-encoding; or leave it open whilst getting feedback
... would rather close this sooner since reason for many reds in tests
... but a week is reasonnable

Philippe: we could use identity instead

Jonathan: JJ, you don't support gzip as I recall?

JJ: correct

Jacek: does the header have to be present, though? I suspect not

<plh> [[ If the content-coding of an entity is not "identity", then the

<plh> response MUST include a Content-Encoding entity-header

<plh> (Section 14.11) that lists the non-identity content-coding(s) used. ]]

Jonathan: have to stick with gzip and accept some of our tests fail

Issue 135

Jonathan: proposal for a new feature, has to do with operation dispatch, related to a former issue using http-location to dispatch
... so, generic binding and HTTP bindings don't work well together
... hence propose location-default property

PROPOSAL: close with no action

RESOLUTION: as just proposed

Issue 144

Jonathan: add {http location ignore uncited} parameter

Arhtur: how many will we need to add?

Jonathan: this one for now; there's a concrete proposal

Arthur: ok

RESOLUTION: adopt the proposal in the my email

Issue 146

Jonathan: {http location ignore uncited} and required schema data
... required information may be dropped
... proposal is that if uncited, should be nillable

Arthur: don't quite like nillable

Jonathan: would prefer optional; but if nillable can still operate

<Jonathan> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2007Jan/0208.html

Arthur: would be ok if using min/maxoccurs

Jonathan: this is my amendment from this week

Asir: nillable is for the content

Arthur: here, if not being sent, but declared in schema as nillable, proposal is to reinsert the element and get a value nil=true
... is that equivalent to missing value for optional element?
... let's say instead element required, but is not present and has a default value

Asir: the infoset gets augmented with the default value
... it gets added when the element is present and doesn't have content

Robertor: value can only be characters

Jonathan: so add or has to have a default
... property must be defined as nillable, or has a default value, or has minoccurs=1

Arthur: we should check default further in the schema spec
... if element missing and has minoccurs=0, don't reconstitute
... if minoccurs=1 and default value, reconstruct
... would like a deterministic rule, needed for interop
... should say what we get after reconstruction

Jonathan: constraint: can mark both as nillable and have a default value

Arthur: maybe in schema spec already ;-)

Asir: from spec, if nillable, no other constraint

Jacek: from different section: if nillable, and not here, it's nil. If not nillable, and not there, default.

<Roberto> karnaugh map

Roberto: let's take this to the list


Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Arthur to review the WSDL 1.1 identifier spec [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/01-ws-desc-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Jonathan to provide an enhanced option 1 for issue 117 by next week, using bits from the other proposals as indicated above [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/01-ws-desc-minutes.html#action02]
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.127 (CVS log)
$Date: 2007/02/01 17:53:56 $