W3C

WS Description WG, 12 May 2005 telcon

12 May 2005

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present:
Rebecca Bergersen, IONA Technologies
Allen Brookes, Rogue Wave Software
Roberto Chinnici, Sun Microsystems
Kendall Clark, University of Maryland MIND Lab
Glen Daniels, Sonic Software
Paul Downey, British Telecommunications
Youenn Fablet, Canon
Hugo Haas, W3C
Tom Jordahl, Macromedia
Anish Karmarkar, Oracle
Jacek Kopecky, DERI Innsbruck at the Leopold-Franzens-Universitšt Innsbruck, Austria
Amelia Lewis, TIBCO
Kevin Canyang Liu, SAP
Jeff Mischkinsky, Oracle
Dale Moberg, Cyclone Commerce
David Orchard, BEA Systems
Tony Rogers, Computer Associates
Arthur Ryman, IBM
Asir Vedamuthu, webMethods
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Invited Expert
Umit Yalcinalp, SAP
Regrets
Jean-Jacques Moreau, Canon
Chair
Marsh
Scribe
youenn

Contents


Minutes approved

Action Item Review

?*        2004-11-11: Anish to propose additions to the test suite for 
                      the purpose of interoperability testing, 
                      due 2005-05-12.
DONE [.5] 2004-12-03: Glen and Asir to help craft the specfic text for
                      the editors (LC18), due 2005-04-13.

<Marsh> ACTION: Editor's to incorporate GLen's LC18 suggestion [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/12-ws-desc-minutes.html#action01]

?         2005-03-31: Marsh to take on (or recommend closing) Bijan's AI
                      to produce a component/property table via XSLT, 
                      due 2005-05-28.
DONE [.6] 2005-04-21: GlenD to check scoping (Section 7.2) references,
                      due 2005-05-12. 

AI (glend to check scoping) closed

<Marsh> ACTION: Glen to add scoping example. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/12-ws-desc-minutes.html#action02]

<Marsh> ACTION: Primer editors to remove section 7.1.2 - we don't define scoping rules for extension elements. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/12-ws-desc-minutes.html#action03]

?         2005-04-21: Pauld to craft, publish Common Schema structures
                      to WG for review for publication as WG Note, 
                      due 2005-05-28. 
?         2005-04-21: Hugo to continue to look at IRI style/URI style,
                      due 2005-05-26. (LC74a)
DUE 05-19 2005-04-22: Umit to write an alternate proposal, 
                      due 2005-05-12 (LC117)
DUE 05-19 2005-04-22: Amy to provide examples for the advanced section 
                      of the primer. Amy to send them to Kevin and test 
                      materials to Arthur, due 2005-05-12. (LC61c) 
DUE 05-19 2005-04-22: Arthur to investigate the Schema Designators and 
                      come back with a proposal, due 2005-05-12. (LC64) 
DUE 05-19 2005-04-22: Amy to investigate a solution, due 2005-05-12
                      (LC74c)
DONE      2005-05-05: GlenD to write - to see replyTo default to 
                      anonymous URI - comment to WS-Addressing WG, due 
                      2005-05-11. 
DONE [.3] 2005-05-05: Marsh to send a note to WS-A that more comments 
                      will come, due 2005-05-11. 
DONE [.4] 2005-05-05: Asir to enumerate what is pending for LC97, due ?.
?         2005-05-05: Umit to writeup a simple proposal to make {safety}
                      as an extension, due 2005-05-19. 
DUE 05-19 2005-05-05: Sanjiva to writeup a proposal for LC71, due ?.

Outstanding editorial work:
DONE [.7] 2004-11-10: ? to remove ambiguity if it exists (ONMR-related)
?         2005-04-21: Hugo to define frag id extensions for 
                      soap:header, http:header, soap:module. (LC80)
SEE [.8]  2005-04-28: Arthur to introduce specialized markup for 
                      components and properties.

arthur proposed introducing specialized markup for components & properties

Arthur given the go ahead on this approach. AI remains open.

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/#actions
[.2] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/4/lc-issues/actions.html
[.3]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-ws-addressing/2005May/0008.ht
ml
[.4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2005May/0027.html
[.5] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2005May/0039.html
[.6] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2005May/0037.html
[.7] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-archive/2005May/0063.html
[.8] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ws-desc/2005May/0027.html

Administrivia

please make sure to register

scribe: to berlin f2f

back to AI

umit to finish hers AI by next week

Core, Adjuncts, Primer, and MTD specs published

WS-Addressing LC review

jmarsh: charlton said most comments were editorial

jacek: editorial comments could be submitted by charlton
... comments that touch wsdl should be submitted by the wsdl WG

<Zakim> asir, you wanted to say good bye!

<scribe> ACTION: marsh to ask charlton to send his comments to WSA except the wsdl11/20 terminology comment [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/12-ws-desc-minutes.html#action04]

<sanjiva> wow that was like immediate departure :-(

<pauld> goodluck Asir!

Incoming last call Issue

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2005May/0025.html

amy: wrote a sample template for describing MEP
... what about adding the template in section 2 of the spec ?

sanjiva: hard for people to understand meps, the fault rules...

amy: I have an AI to demonstrate mep extension within the primer

<Marsh> ACTION: add MEP template as LC128 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/12-ws-desc-minutes.html#action05]

<Marsh> RESOLUTION: Close as editorial, editors to incorporate appropriately.

Issue LC97

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2005May/0027.html

<Marsh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2005May/0027.html

three different styles for setting default values

<scribe> ACTION: editors to update core and binding documents with style A for setting default values [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/12-ws-desc-minutes.html#action06]

<Marsh> ACTION: Marsh to split ais for LC97. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/12-ws-desc-minutes.html#action07]

Issue LC76b

RESOLUTION: close 76b according Amy's proposal

Issue LC90

jmarsh: comment from the schema group to write multiple schemas for the same element
... XHTML as an example
... possible solution is to partition the wsdl:types section in different types section for each message type

<sanjiva> +1 to TomJ: Just say no!

Tom: usecase is not compelling. That makes WSDL documents much more complicated

arthur: the real usecase seem to be an XML messaging protocol that has different schemas for the input and output

sanjiva: the use case may be real but the cost is too high

<Zakim> Marsh, you wanted to recall some of DaveO's earlier examples.

daveO: we could use schema import to specify the scope

<Zakim> alewis, you wanted to ask if this is our problem

amy: it sounds to be a schema problem not a wsdl problem

<dorchard> Amy, don't forget about multi schema language scenarios for a given name

pauld: can it be left to extension

<Zakim> Marsh, you wanted to wind up this topic for today

<uyalcina> +1 to sanjiva

<dorchard> I'm not too interested in pursuing this, as much as I think there is a problem...

<sanjiva> Given the lateness of our schedule I'd really like to see us "just say no" to this. There *is* a workaround.

jmarsh: any objection to close this issue with no action ?

arthur: you cannot rely on schema import to do the scoping as it only defines a namespace use
... this issue may be resolved by extension

<Arthur> suggestion: tell Paul to define a WSDL extension attribute @scd

<sanjiva> +1 for closing it now :-(

<sanjiva> oh well

jmarsh: another week of discussion for LC90

Issue LC124

pauld: allowing more "open-content" for xsd1.1
... is an interesting idea
... this might help evolution of messages

<sanjiva> Given we're within weeks of closing down the 2nd last call and given that there is no concrete proposal on the table I'd recommend we close this with no action. (Sorry Paul.)

jmarsh: this seems to be an extension to the last issue

<Tomj> I don't feel that the rationale for adding something like this is compelling and I think we should close with no action

Proposals addressing formal objections.

Operation name mapping requirement

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2005Apr/0134.html

sanjiva reexplains his proposal

jmarsh: long discussion in WS-A to differentiate the wsa:Action and the soap action property

<Zakim> JacekK, you wanted to ask if this action could be made optional? Why is it mandatory?

umit: the action property will always be there, whether specified or computed using the default algorithm

jacek: is it optional or mandatory for all bindings ?

sanjiva: there is an action property which is always there. the binding then decides to serialize it or not

jacek: why is action mandatory within the soap binding ?
... why should it be always serialized

sanjiva: if wsa is not turned on, the action property will be serialized as soap:action
... if was is turned on as a soap module, the action property will be serialized as was:action

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: add MEP template as LC128 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/12-ws-desc-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: Editor's to incorporate GLen's LC18 suggestion [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/12-ws-desc-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: editors to update core and binding documents with style A for setting default values [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/12-ws-desc-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: Glen to add scoping example. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/12-ws-desc-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: marsh to ask charlton to send his comments to WSA except the wsdl11/20 terminology comment [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/12-ws-desc-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Marsh to split ais for LC97. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/12-ws-desc-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: Primer editors to remove section 7.1.2 - we don't define scoping rules for extension elements. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/12-ws-desc-minutes.html#action03]
 
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2005/05/12 16:39:58 $