Web Services Description WG

13 Jan 2005



  Rebecca Bergersen, IONA Technologies
  David Booth, W3C
  Allen Brookes, Rogue Wave Software
  Roberto Chinnici, Sun Microsystems
  Ugo Corda, SeeBeyond
  Paul Downey, British Telecommunications
  Youenn Fablet, Canon
  Tom Jordahl, Macromedia
  Anish Karmarkar, Oracle
  Jacek Kopecky, DERI
  Amelia Lewis, TIBCO
  Kevin Canyang Liu, SAP
  Jonathan Marsh, Chair/Microsoft
  Jeff Mischkinsky, Oracle
  Dale Moberg, Cyclone Commerce
  Jean-Jacques Moreau, Canon
  David Orchard, BEA Systems
  Bijan Parsia, University of Maryland MIND Lab
  Arthur Ryman, IBM
  Asir Vedamuthu, webMethods
  Umit Yalcinalp, SAP
  Prasad Yendluri, webMethods, Inc.
  Glen Daniels, Sonic Software



<scribe> Scribe: Hugo

Approval of minutes

Umit: there's some unclarity about an action item I got
... I think that it should be a joint AI with you

Jonathan: let's change the AI to Umit to draft a reply and send it to the WG

RESOLUTION: Jan 6 minutes are approved

Action Items

Review of Action items [.1].  Editorial actions [.2].

?         2004-04-01: Marsh will get schema tf going.
?         2004-09-02: Bijan to create stylesheet to generate a
                      table of components and properties.
?         2004-09-16: Editors to move App C to RDF Mapping spec, 
                      except the frag-id which will move 
                      within media-type reg appendix.
?         2004-09-16: Editors to fix paragraph 6-9 of section 
                      2.1.1 moved into 2.1.2
                      which talks about the syntax.
DONE      2004-09-30: Arthur to add Z notation to Part 1.
?         2004-10-14: Editors to add a statement like: 
                      The Style property may constrain both 
                      input and output, however a particular 
                      style may constrain in only one 
                      direction. In Section of Part 1.
                      (subsumed by LC21 resolution?)
?         2004-11-09: DBooth and Roberto to describe 
                      option 2 (remove definition of processor 
                      conformance, write up clear guidelines 
                      to developers) (LC5f)
?         2004-11-09: DaveO to work on text for option 
                      3 (redefining conformance in terms 
                      of building the component model) 
?         2004-11-09: DaveO will recast the @compatibleWith 
                      proposal using an extension namespace. 
?         2004-11-10: Sanjiva to write the rationale for 
                      rejecting LC75a
?         2004-11-10: Glen will post an e-mail describing 
                      the compromise proposal on formal objections.
?         2004-11-10: Editor remove ambiguity if it exists
?         2004-11-10: Sanjiva will write up this proposal 
                      and email it to the list as a response 
                      to the objection.
?         2004-11-11: Anish to propose additions to the 
                      test suite for the purpose of 
                      interoperability testing.
?         2004-11-11: Editors of part 2 and 3 to add text 
                      about WSDLMEP and SOAP mep mapping that 
                      points to section 2.3 of part 3 (LC48b) 
?         2004-11-18: DBooth to propose text to clarify that 
                      a service must implement everything in 
                      its description.
?         2004-11-18: Mini-task force to propose one or two 
                      proposals for the group for LC5f.
?         2004-12-02: DBooth to draft note clarifying that 
                      (a) optional extension can change the 
                      semantics; and (b) that if semantics are 
                      going to change at runtime, it should be 
                      indicated in the WSDL 
?         2004-12-03: Glen and Asir to help craft the specfic text 
                      for the editors.
?         2004-12-03: Glen to send example on feature stuff for primer
?         2004-12-03: Hugo or JMarsh to write up schema group remarks
?         2004-12-16: Part 3 Editors to update the HTTP binding with 
                      one of the above versions of text
?         2005-01-06: MTD Editors to add note saying content-type
                      is not sufficient, information to be 
                      provided via other mechanism, for 
                      example xsi:type"
?         2005-01-06: MTD editors implement proposal 2 for issue 
DONE [.3] 2005-01-06: Umit to respond to Henry asking for lots 
                      of examples on Notation solution.
?         2005-01-06: Umit to draft a response to Larry, "not dynamic, 
                      other solutions equally bad, not 
                      recommendation track, if problems
                      happy to consider those"

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/#actions
[.2] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/4/lc-issues/actions.html
[.3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2005Jan/0024.html


Jonathan: I want to go through issues pretty quickly next week, so that we don't spend too much time on any one issue
... I'll have a final agenda out by Monday

Kevin: no comments about the WS-Chor LC draft

Paul: I made a few minor comments on my behalf

<Marsh> unmute bijan

Jonathan: let's keep this open for another week

Kevin: the WS Choreography WG wants to use F&P, but their draft doesn't show any evidence of that

Bijan: they have not yet, but they want to

Hugo: w.r.t. the TP, Stuart Williams invited us to a discussion on versioning and extensibility of XML languages
... we have done quite some work on this, with 2 extension models, @compatibleWith, the XML 1.0/1.1 handling, etc.

Paul: I am on the planning committee and responsible for this session, and I'd like somebody from our group to go, e.g. Dave

Jonathan: the problem is conflict with the Addressing meeting
... I'll forward the mail to the list

Issue 272

Jonathan: Umit sent Henry Thompson a note asking for more examples

Issue 271 Why is contentType attribute required?


Prasad: maybe he was confused with the text in 2.1

Jonathan: I was assuming that he meant "why should @contentType exist?"

Anish: for certain content types, you can look at the first few bytes, but it's not for all content types

RESOLUTION: issue 271 closed: no change to the spec, and we will respond to his questing

<scribe> ACTION: Umit to respond to Ian Hickson about issue 271

Issue 261: Allow expecteMediaType to contain '*'


Umit: it's pretty clear that this follows the syntax of RFC2616

RESOLUTION: issue 261: integrate Umit's proposal

<scribe> ACTION: Editors of media type doc to implement issue 261 resolution

Issue 262 Value of contentType and the range specified by expectedMediaType


<asir> apologize for being late, I was attending a webMethods internal meeting

Umit: this is a circular definition problem

s/proposal/proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2005Jan/0013.html/

scribe: we just need to add a normative reference: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2005Jan/0014.html

RESOLUTION: Issue 262 to close with: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2005Jan/0014.html

<scribe> ACTION: Editors of media type doc to implement issue 262 resolution

Issue 263 Lexical and value space of the attributes and XML schema decl


Umit's proposed resolution: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2005Jan/0015.html

Umit: I'm proposing to move some text to prevent some forward referencing
... it is also related to issue 273

Jonathan: the twe issues combined is leading towards a token with a minimum length (3 characters)

Anish: the separator in content-type is ',' which isn't a space
... I am not even sure that you need a space after a coma

Umit: this isn't the expectedMediaType, there is no mention of coma

[ discussion of the differences between space, normalized space, and token ]

Umit: there isn't a way to trim leading and trailing spaces, but not touch the spaces in it

Jonathan: can we specify that leading and trailing spaces should be ignored?

Umit: we can do this, but with words, not with schema types

Jonathan: what about the length? is that OK to say that it should be at least 3 characters?

RESOLUTION: issue 262 closed: reference issue fixed earlier, adding minimum 3-character length
... issue 273 closed: accepting the comment, however we can't use token; we will add prose about ignoring leading and trailing spaces,

<scribe> ACTION: Editors to implement 262 and 273

Issue 258: Namespace name too long and had dates

Umit: this issue is really about the W3C template for namespace URIs

Jonathan: however, often, when we get to the end, you drop the month
... but we'll have to ask the Webmaster for approval

RESOLUTION: issue 258 closed: we take the month out at the end

Issue 270: Normalization for content-type strings


Jonathan: there isn't any normalization going on, except the content-type string itself

RESOLUTION: issue 270 closed: this is not an issue

<scribe> ACTION: Reply to issuer 270

Issue 275: Error in example 1

Classified as editorial

<scribe> ACTION: Editors to resolve 275 editorially

Last Call Issues

Added to the issues list:

- LC101: message-level binding (Kevin)

- wsdlLocation version independence (Jonathan)

Jonathan: I got some +1's
... anybody thinking that @wsdlLocation should be explicitely restricted to WSDL 2.0?

Arthur: I think that the silence of the spec mean that it's restricted
... but I don't have any objection to the proposal

Jonathan: any objection to specify that @wsdlLocation can point to documents of any WSDL version?

Arthur: would a 1.1 and 2.0 description have the same targetNamespace?

Jonathan: I think so

Arthur: what would it mean of a targetNamespace was appearing twice?

Jonathan: I think it would be alternate locations

Umit: schema doesn't give any detail for schemaLocation

Jonathan: it's an unordered list of pairs
... there isn't any processing model for that attribute

Arthur: we should define the semantics of the attribute

Jonathan: we should be careful not to diverge from what schema in order to comply with people's expectations

PROPOSAL: wsdlLocation can be used to point to different versions of WSDL

Roberto: what is "different versions of WSDL"? can I define my own version of WSDL?

Jonathan: we can point to 1.1, 2.0, and maybe something in the future that would follow 2.0
... if we want to be crisp, we can restrict ourselves to 1.1 and 2.0

Jacek: we should try and enable future versions

Roberto: I agree

RESOLUTION: wsdlLocation can be used to point to different versions of WSDL

Jonathan: should we talk about the relationship between different locations specified for a targetNamespace?

Arthur: yes

Jonathan: maybe we should open this as a new issue
... not hearing any pushback on enumerating a list of possible relationships between pairs in a non-normative way

RESOLUTION: enumerating a list of possible relationships between pairs in a non-normative way for @wsdlLocation

- @operationStyle

Jonathan: should I reopen this issue?

Umit: the problem is that the resolution of LC21 undid the work that the WG did in another way
... Sanjiva and I, at least, thought that we had broken the work on the RPC style

<Roberto> +1

Hugo: have we broken something?

Umit: yes, you can't apply a style at the operation level anymore

Asir: maybe Hugo and I can make a proposal

Umit: I have made a proposal in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Dec/0038.html

Tom: I read Umit's email, and I think that we made a mistake with the way we closed LC21

Jonathan: does anybody object reopening LC21 to address Umit's concern?

No objection

<Marsh> ACTION: Jon to reopen LC21

- David's slide 12 ?


David: this is proposed non-normative text for the spec

Jonathan: are people happy with David's text?


<scribe> ACTION: Editors to incorporate the text at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Dec/0022.html

- Meaning of WSDL doc ?


Arthur: I don't like the second paragraph
... there are two many emphasized words, which makes me think that they are used in a non-standard way

David: we can remove the stars

<scribe> ACTION: DBooth to rework his text with comments from A. Manes http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Dec/0024.html without the *stars*

[ discussion about the use of italics ]

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: DBooth to rework his text with comments from A. Manes
... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Dec/0024.html
... without the *stars*
[NEW] ACTION: Editors of media type doc to implement issue 261
... resolution
[NEW] ACTION: Editors of media type doc to implement issue 262
... resolution
[NEW] ACTION: Editors to implement 262 and 273
[NEW] ACTION: Editors to incorporate the text at
... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Dec/0022.html
[NEW] ACTION: Editors to resolve 275 editorially
[NEW] ACTION: Jon to reopen LC21
[NEW] ACTION: Reply to issuer 270
[NEW] ACTION: Umit to respond to Ian Hickson about issue 271
[DONE] ACTION: Arthur to add Z notation to Part 1
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.106 (CVS log)
$Date: 2005/01/13 17:38:16 $