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Minutes, 3 July 2003 WSDesc telcon

From: Jonathan Marsh <jmarsh@microsoft.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:00:23 -0700
Message-ID: <DF1BAFBC28DF694A823C9A8400E71EA25E908C@RED-MSG-30.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
To: <www-ws-desc@w3.org>

[Edited by Jonathan Marsh, as Dale has experienced severe email problems...]

Present:
 Erik Ackerman          Lexmark
 David Booth            W3C
 Allen Brookes          Rogue Wave Software
 Youenn Fablet          Canon
 Dietmar Gaertner       Software AG
 Mark Jones             AT&T  
 Philippe Le Hégaret    W3C
 Kevin Canyang Liu      SAP
 Lily Liu               webMethods
 Jonathan Marsh         Chair (Microsoft)
 Jeff Mischkinsky       Oracle
 Dale Moberg            Cyclone Commerce
 Jean-Jacques Moreau    Canon
 Bijan Parsia           University of Maryland MIND Lab
 Arthur Ryman           IBM
 Igor Sedukhin          Computer Associates
 William Vambenepe      Hewlett-Packard
 Sanjiva Weerawarana    IBM
 Prasad Yendluri        webMethods, Inc.

Regrets:
 Roberto Chinnici       Sun Microsystems
 Alan Davies            SeeBeyond
 Steve Graham           Global Grid Forum
 Amelia Lewis           TIBCO
 Steve Lind             AT&T
 Tom Jordahl            Macromedia
 Ingo Melzer            DaimlerChrysler
 Adi Sakala             IONA Technologies
 Jeffrey Schlimmer      Microsoft
 Jerry Thrasher         Lexmark
 Umit Yalcinalp         Oracle

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1.  Assign scribe.
  Dale Moberg

--------------------------------------------------------------------
2.  Approval of minutes:
  - June 26 telcon [.1].  Belated regrets from Prasad.  Correction from
    JJM about reverting rather than deleting section 1.1. [.2]

Minutes approved 

[.1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Jun/att-0152/minutes-20030626.html
[.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Jun/0163.html

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3.  Review of Action items [.1].
PENDING   2003-03-13: Don will write a proposal for annotating schema
                      with part information.
PENDING   2003-03-27: Philippe write up a proposal for embedding binary
                      data types in schema
PENDING   2003-05-13: DaveO to send a motivating example for R131.
PENDING   2003-05-13: Jeffsch, Sanjiva, Glen, Umit, JJM to come up with
                      a proposal to get rid with the message construct,
                      and add programming hints.
DONE [.2] 2003-05-14: Kevin to contact Sanjiva and try to merge 
                      proposals.
PENDING   2003-06-12: Jacek to synthesize the different approaches 
                      to solving issue 64.
PENDING   2003-06-26: dbooth to propose definitions for "interface",
                      "service", etc. as they pertain to the diagram

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/#actions
[.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Jul/0017.html

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3.  Review of Action items [.1].
?         2003-03-13: Don will write a proposal for annotating schema
                      with part information.
?         2003-03-27: Philippe write up a proposal for embedding binary
                      data types in schema
?         2003-05-13: DaveO to send a motivating example for R131.
?         2003-05-13: Jeffsch, Sanjiva, Glen, Umit, JJM to come up with
                      a proposal to get rid with the message construct,
                      and add programming hints.
DONE [.2] 2003-05-14: Kevin to contact Sanjiva and try to merge 
                      proposals.
?         2003-06-12: Jacek to synthesize the different approaches 
                      to solving issue 64.
?         2003-06-26: dbooth to propose definitions for "interface",
                      "service", etc. as they pertain to the diagram

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/#actions
[.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Jul/0017.html

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4.  Administrivia
  a. Welcome new members:
     - Mark Jones for AT&T (alternate)
     - Bradley R. Bebee for Hicks & Associates (representing DARPA)
  b. July FTF logistics [.1], registration [.2]
  c. Joint plenary with OASIS Dec 8th - how many would attend?

Dec 8 Philadelphia -- opportunity to solicit feedback?
<sanjiva> Sanjiva will not be able to be in Philly Dec 8th
What if Nov. meeting cancelled and replaced by Dec?
Slight pref for November.

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/3/05/f2fJulyLogistics.htm
[.2] http://cgi.w3.org/Register/selectUser.pl?_w3c_meetingName=WSAWG_WSDWG_20
0307

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5.  Task Force Status.
 a. Properties and Features (dormant)
 b. Patterns

MEP task force examined impact on clients of various patterns

 c. Attributes
 d. QA & Testing

------------------------------------------------------------------
6.  New Issues.  Merged issues list [.1].
  - MEP text from WSArch [.2]

[.1] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/issues/wsd-issues.html
[.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Jun/0167.html

<editor> Forward to Patterns TF for review.

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7.  Substitution groups or <xs:any> extensibility [.1].

[.1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Jun/0051.html

Adding wrapper tag artifact of XML schema, avoid in other schema lang?
JM:       Possibly but irrelevant for our norm. schema
Subst constrains where stuff goes; Open content model less constrained.
Straw poll: 1. Subst. groups or 2. Open content model.
If 1, then what do we recommend about wrapper elements?
DM:       what are the options for wrapper elements
MJ:       subset of schema ?
JM:       earlier we said no in a response to a query
Arthur:   best to have fixed schema
bijan:    how about two versions, one with subst. groups one without
JM:       more work for us, complexity
Sanjiva:  can write schema with open content model ...
6 for open 2 for subst. 9 abstains
[* Philippe notes that it will resolve an issue with XML Schema 
validators at the same time :)]
JM:       will update to use open content model
Arthur:   lax, strict ?
* Philippe  processContents = (lax | skip | strict) : strict
ACTION:   Arthur to figure out which validation mode 

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8.  Single service per interface motivation [.1, .2]
    Comments on the pretty pictures [.3].  Simplification of the
    simplification proposal [.4].  Error in diagram (David) [.5]. 

[.1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003May/0095.html
[.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003May/0104.html
[.3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Jun/0023.html
[.4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Jun/0031.html
[.5] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Jun/0064.html

JM:       any comments on single service issue
<igors>   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Jun/0127.html
Igor:     describes implementational burdens of aggregation -- see link too
Sanjiva:  aggregation almost in choreography topic
Arthur:   why not inheritance
Igor:     ambiguity and example
Sanjiva:  aggregation handled in bpel
Arthur:   two services combined or two implementations
Sanjiva:  wsdl 1.1 did not explain how to combine 2 porttypes into 1 , 
          e.g., java interface
<sanjiva> does anyone know of any wsdl2java tools that will properly
          generate multiple interfaces? I don't think Axis' tool does 
          that; I believe it picks the first
attempt to identify impact on lang. bindings
Igor:     migration issue remains
JM:       key shift is in thinking about service
Igor:     composition variants revisited, inheritance for interfaces 
          vs. aggregation of services
JM:       terminology question pertaining to migration probably needs 
          to be addressed 
WS-I profile should discourage mult. interfaces per service... (BP 1.1) 
* sanjiva thinks that we should rename what we're producing WSDL 2.0
* sanjiva believes that even more if (and when) we remove <message>
David:    to mark a relationship between mult. service elements in 
          same file, add a name AII. OK that we don't provide 
          semantics for that name.
Sanjiva:  targetNamespace provides grouping
David:    ponders whether that would suffice for marking group
* sanjiva thinks that URIs do indeed name everything under the sun ;-)
Scribe refuses to summarize point about no name is a name.
* bijan is glad that real numbers aren't under the sun...
* Marsh thanks Scribe for giving "point about no name is a name" a name :-)
Igor:     calls for cleanup
<sanjiva> Kevin's and my proposal for cleaning up bindings is published 
          on the list
Sanjiva: agrees that some of the qname redundancies in binding deserve fix
Consensus favors single interface for service!
* jeffm the crowd cheers
* sanjiva wonders whether we'll be back to square one on the list as 
          today appears to be a lightly attended call

Meeting adjourned.
Received on Wednesday, 9 July 2003 16:00:35 GMT

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