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RE: Proposal for R120 WSDL URI References

From: David Orchard <dorchard@bea.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:23:54 -0700
To: <ryman@ca.ibm.com>, <www-ws-desc@w3.org>
Message-ID: <00ba01c27bac$0b2c01e0$2d0ba8c0@beasys.com>

Arthur et al,

I'm quite concerned about creating a new urn scheme and a media type and a
media type specific query/path syntax in order to get usable identifiers.
If yet another language has to create a frag id syntax/query language and
identifier syntax, I'd probably like to raise this as TAG issue, as there's
something clearly architecturally wrong.  grumble grumble.

Could you show syntax on why using URIs with XPointer and/or the XPointer
framework is so broken?

I agree that the use of http schemed URIs is confusing when the intent is
for identification.  But is foisting a domain name into a URN the best
solution?  There's been a great deal of discussion on this topic at the TAG
BTW.  I had proposed the use of an id: scheme (and larry masinter pointed to
his tdb and duri schemes) that allow us to avoid specifying an http scheme
for non-dereferencable resources.  I had basically given up on pushing this
topic any further at the TAG because of lack of support (how many arguments
does one want?), but this might be a reason for it.

Is the url to urn mapping intended to be by-directional?  As in, can I take
a wsdl urn and construct a url from it?

I notice that you didn't show any extensibility elements, like soap or http
bindings.  Are they intended to be addressible?  How does an identifier of
an extensibility element in a different namespace get specified?

BTW, I was chortling as I thought through the use of the "name" attribute.
All the names in your sample document are intended to be unique within each
elements containment hierarchy.  So I got thinking about the way that HTML
used name attributes instead of id attributes <a name="foo"/> and #foo just
works.  We're almost back to html's use of names instead of ids.  If we just
had an identifier type that was relative and a simple bare name query that
understood paths, I think most of your problems would be solved.
urn:wsdl:http://airline.wsdl/ticketagent/#message(listFlightsRequest) ->
urn:wsdl:http://airline.wsdl/ticketagent/#listFlightsRequest.  I do admit
that you've added types to your queries.

I'd also like to encourage y'all to think about these problems from an
overall web architecture perspective.  If the problems you are facing seem
more general than describing web services - like creating schemes and media
types in order to do identifier syntax? - then you might be able to punt the
problem somewhere else.  The benefit is that you might have to do less work.

Cheers,
Dave

> -----Original Message-----
> From: www-ws-desc-request@w3.org [mailto:www-ws-desc-request@w3.org]On
> Behalf Of ryman@ca.ibm.com
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 8:07 AM
> To: www-ws-desc@w3.org
> Subject: Proposal for R120 WSDL URI References
>
>
> Here's the proposal: (See attached file: URI-References.html)
>
> Arthur Ryman
Received on Thursday, 24 October 2002 18:28:41 GMT

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