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Minutes 11 July 2002 WS Desc telcon (plain text)

From: Don Mullen <donmullen@tibco.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:53:34 -0400
Message-ID: <339902DC0E58D411986A00B0D03D843201B23FE9@extmail.extensibility.com>
To: "WS-Desc WG (Public)" <www-ws-desc@w3.org>
Cc: "'Jonathan Marsh'" <jmarsh@microsoft.com>


W3C Web Services Description Teleconference 7/11/2002
                 Minutes of Meeting

Present
 Mike Ballantyne        Electronic Data Systems
 David Booth            W3C
 Roberto Chinnici       Sun Microsystems
 Glen Daniels           Macromedia
 Youenn Fablet          Canon
 Dietmar Gaertner       Software AG
 Martin Gudgin          Microsoft
 Philippe Le Hégaret    W3C
 Steve Lind             AT&T
 Michael Mahan          Nokia
 Jonathan Marsh         Chair (Microsoft)
 Jean-Jacques Moreau    Canon
 Don Mullen             Tibco
 Jeffrey Schlimmer      Microsoft
 Igor Sedukhin          Computer Associates
 William Stumbo         Xerox
 Steve Tuecke           Global Grid Forum
 William Vambenepe      Hewlett-Packard
 Sanjiva Weerawarana    IBM
 Don Wright             Lexmark
 Joyce Yang             Oracle
 Prasad Yendluri        webMethods, Inc.
 Barbara Zengler        Daimler Chrysler

Regrets:
 Allen Brookes          Rogue Wave Software
 Michael Champion       Software AG
 Laurent De Teneuille   L'Echangeur
 Tim Finin              University of Maryland
 Steve Graham           Global Grid Forum
 Tom Jordahl            Macromedia
 Jacek Kopecky          Systinet
 Dan Kulp               IONA
 Kevin Canyang Liu      SAP
 Pallavi Malu           Intel
 Michael Mealling       Verisign
 Stefano Pogliani       Sun
 Jochen Ruetschlin      DaimlerChrysler Research and Technology
 Arthur Ryman           IBM
 Daniel Schutzer        Citigroup
 Dave Solo              Citigroup
 Jerry Thrasher         Lexmark

Absent:
 Mike Davoren           W. W. Grainger
 Sandeep Kumar          Cisco Systems
 Mike McHugh            W. W. Grainger
 Jeff Mischkinsky       Oracle
 Dale Moberg            Cyclone Commerce
 Johan Pauhlsson        L'Echangeur
 Waqar Sadiq            Electronic Data Systems
 Adi Sakala             IONA Technologies
 Sandra Swearingen      U.S. Department of Defense, U.S. Air Force


Agenda:

1.  Assign scribe : Don Mullen

2.  Representation change: Mario Jeckle replaced by Barbara Zengler.

3.  Approval of minutes from 27 June telcon [6].
    APPROVED.

4.  Action Items

2002-06-20: Sanjiva. Champion for 6c. Issue: SOAPAction1 #1
            [PENDING]
2002-06-20: Jean-J. Analyze whether WSD should gneralize a
            mechanism to provide protocol headers. This was 
            discussed as part of 6d. Issue: SOAPAction2 #2
            actor URI in WSDL? #17
            [TWO PARTS: One PENDING, One DONE]
2002-06-20: JeffS Champion for 6h. Issue: Default for transport 
            of <soap:binding> #18
            [PENDING]
2002-06-20: Issue Editor. Jean-J identifies dup issue: 6q. Issue: 
            SOAP 1.1 backward compatibility support? #32 (Needs
            Clarification.)
            [DONE]
2002-06-27: JS will add the draft requirements to the document.
            [DONE]
2002-06-27: JS will add media types as a MUST requirement.
            [DONE]
2002-06-27: SW will distribute a draft of final draft by the close
            of the day on Thursday.
            [DONE]
2002-06-27: Issues list editors to look at the issues in Agenda item 9
            and make sure that they are not duplicate and add them
            to issue list.
            [DONE]
2002-06-27: JM will think about what should be done with the
            suggestion for a note or appendix on 1.2 -> 1.2 transition.
            [PENDING]
                 
-------------------
5.  WSDL Spec published (Cheers)

        JM: Plan to publish again in September -- too aggresive, considering
August off?
            Draft of Primer available by F2F
            Shoot for some time in October / November?
        Possibly discuss timing at the next F2F
        During August -- emails can continue, but no telcon or resolutions.

-------------------
6.  Requirements document

        Plan to discuss at F2F

-------------------
7.  SOAP 1.2 Last Call
    Last call announcement:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2002AprJun/0141.html

        JM: Request for volunteers
            Feedback required by July 18
            Plan to go directly from LC to Proposed REC
        
        Do we have time to give feedback -- possibly send a week late?
        
        JM: Review this week, post comments at telcon next week,
            decide how much time needed to forward to XMLP.
        Sanjiva: Propose telcon between interested parties.
        JM: Glen, Sanjiva, Phillipe look at MEP part
        
        JM: JM to set up Monday at 11am eastern for 1 hour
                - Glen, Sanjiva, Phillippe, etc.  Open to everyone.
        JM: Asks everyone who can to review and post comments.

-------------------
8. Editorial Issues

        JM: 51, 33, and 50 identified as not editorial
        JM: Any others?
        No.
        JM: Editors -- move forward on editorial issues.

-------------------
9.  New Issues

        Hoisting SOAP Binding attributes
 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0058.html
        
        Name AII on input/output EIIs in port type operations - 
 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0061.html]
        JM: Martin's issue not yet a new issue -- Martin to take another
look.
        Phillipe:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jun/0243.html
                   -> 14. Remove name attribute

-------------------
10. Reopen issue-intra-port-relationship [21]?

        JM: Weak documentation on why we closed this issue.
        Some question on meeting notes on whether it was closed or not?
        JM: Ok to reopen the issue -- or think about another week.
        JM: Concensus to close issue with reverse decision.
        
    *** Resolution: Close issue : remove the restriction intra-port
relationships 

-------------------
11. Issue: Overloading operations
    - postpone another week.

-------------------
12. SOAP 1.2 support TF [20]

        JM: Origin of task force to assign champions to particular issues
            -- issue 23 in particular.
        JM: Do we need to do all of SOAP 1.2?  Concerned that task force is
            developing proposals for all of soap issues.
        JJM: Looking at current issues in the list that are soap 1.2 related
             -- different view on the issues list.
        JM: Introduced any new issues -- that are not already reflected in
issues list.
        JJM: No -- may need to raise a few more that we have not done yet.
        JM: Goal of places in soap where we aren't fully supported -- good
goal.
            Want to make sure original task done.
        JM: One deliverable -- categorize existing issues -- assertion that
the
            list is comprehensive in covering soap 1.2 functionality.
        JJM: Pretty much have what the task force has to deliver
             -- MEPs something we aren't supported
             -- also features and bindings to other protocols.
        JM: Issue 23 closed?
        JJM: Probably
        JM: Continue with Monday call and look deeper into MEP issue.
            Continue to look for things that we might not be supporting
fully in SOAP 1.2.

-------------------
13. Issue 4: Namespaces
    - Martin's proposal :
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jun/0168.html
    - Prasad's mail:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0029.html
    
        Gudge: If use = 'literal' then namespace not applicable.
        Sanjiva: Issue of type and element
        Gudge: if encoded, use type, not element
        Move discussion to email?
        Gudge: close with clarification -- if bigger issue makes mute,
that's ok
        JM: Propose to close the issue as Martin/Prasad : use='literal'
style='doc'
            namespace attribute on soap:body not applicable - resolved.
            
   **** Resolution: Issue 4 closed using Prasad's ammendment to Martin's
proposal.

-------------------
14. Issue: optional "name" attribute of <definition>

        Sanjiva's proposal to remove this attribute
 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jun/0175.html.
        JM: Postpone for Tom to respond?
        Glen: Does not know how strongly Tom feels about this.
        
ACTION: Glen to ping Tom on issue-remove-optional-name-of-definition

-------------------
15. Issue issue-multiple-services.
    Sanjiva's proposal at
        http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jun/0165.html
        
        Issue already was closed -- allowing multiple.

-------------------
16. Issue 5: EncodingStyle.
    Arthur recommends closing as a dupe of Issue #30. [31]

        Postponed.

-------------------
17. Issue 25: Interaction between W3C XML Schema and SOAP Data Model 

        Gudge: summary
        Roberto: WSDL 1.1 - no formal description of data model schema was
                 -- or how xml schema in wsdl related to soap data model --
needs work to clarify.
        Sanjiva: agree to clarify -- clarification approach
                 - drop concept of encoding is weak, but something to
consider
        JM: Need someone to work up proposal on this.
        Glen: express in straight schema - known how to map to encoded thing
              -- would solve a lot of problems (use annotations?)
        Gudge: Would like to work on that -- when do you want it by?
        Glen: Very attractive, but feel like there is going to be push back
              -- schema not designed to do....
        Gudge: That magic exists already today -- just describing the magic.
               Status quo is unacceptable.
        Roberto: describe in our spec the rules -- creating a schema for the
                 encoded graph, not the data that then gets encoded
        Gudge: Do we want to expend effort to describe soap encoding in xml
schema?
               Mapping rules for soap encoding to xml schema.
        Gudge: Second question -- just want to describe the graph itself.
        Sanjiva: Soap encoding exists -- can't ignore.  Two data models.
        Gudge: Why two?  
        Gudge: XML Schema might be wrong language to use.
        Sanjiva: Tools available for XML Schema -- would be nice to
leverage.
        Roberto: If data model what we care about
                 -- then start there and see if we can map to xml schema.
        Gudge: Soap group tried to do this and basically punted -- too hard.
               If want type information in graph, here is how to achieve it.
        Gudge: Did not indicate how to have a schema that maps to actual
soap message.
        Gudge: Schema does not describe direct edge labeled graphs.
        Sanjiva: Able to create a schema for the actual wire message --
people have asked for this.
        Gudge: If you can do this -- why isn't the schema used to describe
the message?
        <roberto>
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/xml-dist-app/2002Apr/0108.html
        Gudge: Don't understand desire to describe something and then say
               -- "it does not look like that."
        Gudge: Designing a new language to describe this is not
               the right thing -- don't have time.
        JM: If we can design such a language -- understand reqs are
            -- use xml schema as a framework.  Possibly not total waste of
time.
        JM: Question re: gudge's interest graphs instead of soap encoding
        Sanjiva: Might not want to map to soap -- something else
        JM: What questions we want to answer : define the tasks:
        Roberto: Take three options and move to email
        
ACTION: Roberto to inumerate three options on Issue 25 and post to email

-------------------
18. Issue 30: soap:body encodingStyle
    Arthur's proposal [31]
    
        Postponed.

-------------------
19. Issue service-type:  [33] OK to wait on Abstract Component work to
    provide a more concrete proposal?
    
        JM: Hoping when Gudge presents abstract component model
            -- might bring clarity on these issues and a proposal to resolve
them.  
            Reasonable?
        Sanjiva: Do have two issues on service-type - ACM won't resolve.
        Gudge: ACM may help us think about the issues

-------------------
20. Issue remove-solicit-response-operations: Removing solicit-response
    and notifications.  [34] OK to schedule for FTF?
    
        Appropriate forum is F2F
        JM: David's presentation - describing issues
        David: Jeff and Gudge looked at it -- taking action to move forward 
          with this

ACTION: DavidB to do Solicit/Response presentation at September F2F

-------------------
21. HTTP Binding Issues (6a, 41)
    Jeffrey recommends no change [35].
    
        JM: Put this top of agenda for next week
        Sanjiva: One week not adequate for this -- Sanjiva to post email
        
ACTION: Sanjiva to post email on issues 6a, 41
        
-------------------

Summary of Action Items:

2002-06-20: Jean-J. Analyze whether WSD should gneralize a
            mechanism to provide protocol headers. This was 
            discussed as part of 6d. Issue: SOAPAction2 #2
            actor URI in WSDL? #17
            
2002-06-20: JeffS Champion for 6h. Issue: Default for transport 
            of <soap:binding> #18

2002-06-27: JM will think about what should be done with the
            suggestion for a note or appendix on 1.2 -> 1.2 transition.

2002-07-11: Glen to ping Tom on issue-remove-optional-name-of-definition

2002-07-11: Roberto to inumerate three options on Issue 25 and post to email

2002-07-11: DavidB to do Solicit/Response presentation at September F2F

2002-07-11: Sanjiva to post email on issues 6a, 41
Received on Friday, 12 July 2002 10:58:54 GMT

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