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RE: [ws-chor] 4/29/2003: Updated Glossary of Terms

From: Martin Chapman <martin.chapman@oracle.com>
Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 10:44:34 -0700
To: "Francis McCabe" <fgm@fla.fujitsu.com>
Cc: "Monica J. Martin" <monica.martin@sun.com>, <member-ws-chor@w3.org>, <www-ws-arch@w3.org>
Message-ID: <PEEBJKKCFNCENDPJDEMIOEGCDCAA.martin.chapman@oracle.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Francis McCabe [mailto:fgm@fla.fujitsu.com]
> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 10:27 AM
> To: Martin Chapman
> Cc: Monica J. Martin; member-ws-chor@w3.org; www-ws-arch@w3.org
> Subject: Re: [ws-chor] 4/29/2003: Updated Glossary of Terms
>
>
> Well, I can see that that might end up being the consensus :-)
>
> However, some points:
>
> 1. It is not obvious that there is a distinction between the overall
> pov and an individual party's pov; i.e., it is not obvious that two
> words are required for this distinction.

Agreed, which is why the term orchestration is temporarly banned in
Choreo:-)
>
> 2. There is still the need for defining the term for the mechanism that
> ensures a choreography happens: whether it is by means of a central
> controller or individual code choices makes no difference

No sure I understand this one. This is like saying a mechanism is need to
make an objectt happen.
Surely the type/instance distinction is good enough, but may be I have
missed the point.

>
> 3. My definition of orchestration did not actually state that the
> mechanism had to be centralized.

ok but its related to 1

>
> 4. I did not intend to imply a value-judgement that choreographies had
> to be centrally managed.

ok
>
> However, my mission is not to impose will but to write text; and we
> need something in the WSA that is better than is currently there.
>
> Frank
>
>
>
> On Friday, May 2, 2003, at 10:02  AM, Martin Chapman wrote:
>
> > No sure I buy the orchestration defintion. The text implies
> > enforcement to a
> > choreography or some policing of a choreography.
> > This seems to contrast with what I see, in that choreography and
> > orchestration are different flavours of defining patterns of
> > interactions.
> > Although there is no consenus of these flavours, it seems the general
> > direction
> > is to view orchestration as a defintion from a single single party's
> > point
> > of
> > view (the conductor) and choregraphy is a defintion of a shared point
> > of
> > view
> > (i.e. no central controller).
> >
> >
> > Martin.
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Francis McCabe [mailto:fgm@fla.fujitsu.com]
> > Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 9:10 AM
> > To: Monica J. Martin
> > Cc: Martin Chapman; member-ws-chor@w3.org; www-ws-arch@w3.org
> > Subject: Re: [ws-chor] 4/29/2003: Updated Glossary of Terms
> >
> >
> > Since we are currently editing the WSA spec, we need a placeholder for
> > the notions of Choreography and probably orchestration.
> >
> > I propose the following:
> >
> > Choreography:
> >
> > The pattern of interactions, expressed as a pattern of types of
> > messages, between a set of service requestors and providers. A
> > description of a choreography may include a description of the
> > necessary states that give rise to the particular message patterns.
> >
> > In contract, Orchestration would be:
> >
> > A mechanism for ensuring that a set of service providers and requestors
> > exchange messages in accordance to a choreography.
> >
> > We would appreciate comments on these definitions, as a new heart-beat
> > spec will be published shortly.
> >
> > Of course, if WS-CHOR comes to consensus on these terms, the WSA will
> > be updated acccordingly.
> >
> > Frank McCabe
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tuesday, April 29, 2003, at 12:46  PM, Monica J. Martin wrote:
> >
> >> Everyone,
> >> Sorry for a delay. Here are the updated terms in an Excel .xls. I've
> >> added columns as we work through the definitions (normative or
> >> informative) we wish to use.
> >> In comments column, we have open questions. We also can discuss which
> >> terms are currently seen in scope for WS-Chor and others that may be
> >> TBD as we flesh through the requirements.
> >>
> >> I hope this is a good start - it takes all comments received (Hugo,
> >> Cummins, Arkin, Dart, believe that is it......).
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >> Monica
> >> Martin Chapman wrote:
> >>
> >>> _________________________________________________________________
> >>> Martin Chapman                                 500 Oracle Parkway
> >>> Consulting Member of Technical Staff           Ms 4op990
> >>> Oracle                                         Redwood Shores,
> >>> P: +1 650 506 6941                             CA 94065
> >>> e: martin.chapman@oracle.com                   USA
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> -
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> *W3C Web Services Choreography Working Group weekly conference call*
> >>>
> >>> * *
> >>>
> >>> *29^nd  April 2003*
> >>>
> >>> *AGENDA*
> >>>
> >>> Dial in information (members only):
> >>> http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/chor/admin#meetings**
> >>>
> >>> *1.            **Role Call*
> >>>
> >>> *2.            **Confirm scribe*
> >>>
> >>> The following is a list of recent scribes (in order): Abbie Barbir,
> >>> David Burdett, John Dart, Carol MacDonald, Yaron Goland, Daniel
> >>> Austin, Jim Hendler,  Peter Furniss, Ed Peters, Greg Ritzinger,
> >>> Leonard Greski
> >>>
> >>> *3.            **Approve minute
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *
> >>>
> >>> *4.            ** *
> >>>
> >>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-ws-chor/2003Apr/att-0039/
> >>> 20030422-1.html
> >>>
> >>> *5.            **Action Item Review*
> >>>
> >>> Hugo Haas: Creation of editors mailing list is in progress due to be
> >>> complete by the end of the week :
> >>>
> >>> Possible hosting of a future face 2 face meeting on the East Coast by
> >>> Novel, Sun and Sonic respectively.
> >>>
> >>> SRT will prepare list of places for harvesting use cases and send
> >>> list to WG list
> >>>
> >>> (recorded in http://www.w3.org/2003/04/08-ws-chor-irc#T20-41-43 )
> >>>
> >>> Chairs to compose list of tasks for a call for SME volunteers in next
> >>> week's call
> >>>
> >>> (recorded in http://www.w3.org/2003/04/08-ws-chor-irc#T20-42-02)
> >>>
> >>> All: Review requirements document and provide feedback to editors.
> >>> http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/chor/reqs/2003/04/WD-ws-chor-requirements-
> >>> 20030414.html
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> All: Everyone should read the CSF(critical success factors) part of
> >>> the WSA spec to understand what it is about.
> >>> http://www.w3.org/TR/wsa-reqs
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> * *
> >>>
> >>> *6.            **Focus for the next 6 months (continued from last
> >>> week)*
> >>>
> >>> *a.                   **Other deliverables*
> >>>
> >>> *1.                         **Base line specifications*
> >>>
> >>> *2.                         **Intermediate specifications*
> >>>
> >>> *3.                         **Testcases*
> >>>
> >>> *4.                         **Generators*
> >>>
> >>> *[note from chair: In the absence of other input I have picked the
> >>> first two topics that were on last weeks agenda which we didnít get
> >>> to]*
> >>>
> >>> *7.            **Reusable choreographies and data formats (deferred
> >>> from last week)*
> >>>
> >>> *8.            **Choreography storage and retrieval (hot topic from
> >>> the public mailing list)*
> >>>
> >>> *a.                   **What do we search on?*
> >>>
> >>> *b.                  **Dealing with incomplete information?***
> >>>
> >>> *c.                   **The role of rules?***
> >>>
> >>> *9.            **Dynamically changing participants in a choreography
> >>> (hot topic from public mailing list)*
> >>>
> >>> *10.        **Formal models and choreography (hot topic from public
> >>> mailing list)*
> >>>
> >>> *a.                   **The value of the value of the pi-calculus*
> >>>
> >>> *b.                  **What about petrinets*
> >>>
> >>> *c.                   **What is a process (hot topic from the mailing
> >>> list)*
> >>>
> >>> *11.        **AOB.*
> >>>
> >>> * *
> >>>
> >>
> >> <WS-ChorMatrixTerms_mm2_042903.xls>
> >
> >
>
>
Received on Friday, 2 May 2003 13:45:49 GMT

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