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RE: Draft of the Web Services Glossary (reliable messaging)

From: Cutler, Roger (RogerCutler) <RogerCutler@chevrontexaco.com>
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 11:34:32 -0500
Message-ID: <7FCB5A9F010AAE419A79A54B44F3718E01817E07@bocnte2k3.boc.chevrontexaco.net>
To: jdart@tibco.com, "Francis McCabe" <fgm@fla.fujitsu.com>
cc: "Hugo Haas" <hugo@w3.org>, www-ws-arch@w3.org, dorchard@bea.com

In general this looks pretty good to me, although some wordsmithing and
smoothing is obviously still necessary.  I agree with both of Jon's
comments below.

Hugo -- you should note that the glossary definition of RM is now out of
whack with the document.

Frank and Dave - Reading on from the RM section into the SOA section --
I found this section extremely hard going.  For example, what does
"Direct SOA" mean?  It is defined briefly, but not discussed very much,
in section 1.6.2, which is WAY far away from this point in the document.
And I agree that more discussion of the advantages of the styles is
needed.  I think that this section needs to be expanded and explained
more for the benefit of people who have not spent huge amounts of time
discussing these concepts and issues.  

-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Dart [mailto:jdart@tibco.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 5:31 PM
To: Francis McCabe
Cc: Cutler, Roger (RogerCutler); Hugo Haas; www-ws-arch@w3.org
Subject: Re: Draft of the Web Services Glossary (reliable messaging)


This draft is much improved.

> Of these, first and second are considered to be part of reliable 
> messaging, the last is partly addressed by Web service choreography.
> 
I'm not sure the second is part of RM. RM implies end to end integrity 
of the data at the transport layer. However, IMO data validation wrt XML

syntax or schema is an application-level function.

> Message reliability is most often achieved via an acknoweldgement 
> infrastructure, which is a set of rules defining how the parties to a 
> message should communicate with each other concerning the receipt of 
> that message and its validity.

Reliability also usually imples an infrastructure for identifying 
messages, both to support duplicate detection, and also to enable 
correlation of messages sent and received asychronously.

--Jon

Francis McCabe wrote:
> 
> Take a look at
> 
> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/arch/wsa/wd-wsa-arch-
> review2.html?rev=1.12&content-type=text/html
> 
> I have done some munging of the wording, and added one concept to the
> concepts and relationships section pertaining to message reliability.
> 
> Frank
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, April 30, 2003, at 01:08  PM, Cutler, Roger 
> (RogerCutler)
> wrote:
> 
>>
>> As you know, the editors are currently chewing on RM verbiage 
>> contributed by me and commented on by others, including yourself.  I 
>> am sort of assuming that the RM definition is likely to morph after 
>> we see how the digestion process proceeds ... Uh, this metaphor is 
>> moving in a direction that I should probably cut short ...
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jon Dart [mailto:jdart@tibco.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 2:14 PM
>> To: Hugo Haas
>> Cc: www-ws-arch@w3.org
>> Subject: Re: Draft of the Web Services Glossary (reliable messaging)
>>
>>
>>
>> I trust the "reliable messaging" definition is still a work in  
>> progress.
>>
>> As it stands, the text says that RM implies both confirmation of  
>> receipt
>>
>> and once-and-only-once delivery. In fact, real reliable message 
>> systems may offer either of these capabilities, or both, and in 
>> addition other capabilities, as part of a spectrum of quality of 
>> service options.
>>
>> --Jon
>>
>> Hugo Haas wrote:
>>
>>> Dear WG members,
>>>
>>> Please review for publication (i.e. let the editor know on the 
>>> www-ws-arch mailing list if there are things that need to be flagged

>>> as not representing consensus at all, or something one cannot live 
>>> with, etc.) the following document:
>>>
>>>   Web Services Glossary
>>>
>>>   Editors' Draft $Date: 2003/04/30 17:54:16 $ 2003
>>>
>>>
>>> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/arch/glossary/wsa-glossa
>>> ry
>>> .html?rev=1.40&content-type=text/html
>>>
>>> Main changes since the W3C Working Draft 14 November 2002:
>>> - incorporates the decisions and discussions made.
>>> - incorporates the management glossary work
>>> - reorganization of the sections
>>>
>>> Detailed changes:
>>> - Changelog:
>>>
>>>
>> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/arch/glossary/wsa- 
>> glossary.h tml?rev=1.40&content-type=text/html#changelog
>>
>>> - CVS log:
>>>   http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/ws/arch/glossary/wsa-glossary.xml
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Hugo
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
Received on Thursday, 1 May 2003 12:35:01 GMT

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