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RE: Resource definition

From: James M Snell <jasnell@us.ibm.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:21:37 -0800
To: "Assaf Arkin" <arkin@intalio.com>
Cc: "David Orchard" <dorchard@bea.com>, "'Cutler, Roger \(RogerCutler\)'" <RogerCutler@chevrontexaco.com>, <www-ws-arch@w3.org>, <www-ws-arch-request@w3.org>
Message-ID: <OFF9F6A7EB.FED34896-ON88256CD1.007F64C4-88256CD1.008052C9@us.ibm.com>

Ok, that's fine, but where do you draw the line?  If everything becomes a 
resource then the idea of a resource begins to lose value.  Simply 
asserting that "All Web services have an identity and are therefore 
resources" doesn't seem to add any value.  Personally, I believe that Dave 
Orchard's question in the original note that I responded to should have 
been something like "1. The W3C TAG should darned well write up what 
**class of resources are most relevant** from a web architecture 
perspective"  If the answer to that question includes the class of 
resources that describe mechanisms of accessing other resources then 
you've got something valuable because you've narrowed down the scope.  If 
the answer is "any resource with an identity" then y'all will just 
continue to spin your wheels and not get anywhere.

Ok, I'm done... shutting up and going back to my corner ;-)

- James Snell
     IBM Emerging Technologies
     jasnell@us.ibm.com
     (559) 587-1233 (office)
     (700) 544-9035 (t/l)
     Programming Web Services With SOAP
         O'Reilly & Associates, ISBN 0596000952

     Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. 
     Do not be terrified, do not be discouraged, for the Lord your 
     God will be with you whereever you go.    - Joshua 1:9



"Assaf Arkin" <arkin@intalio.com>
02/18/2003 03:02 PM

To
James M Snell/Fresno/IBM@IBMUS, "Mark Baker" <distobj@acm.org>
cc
"David Orchard" <dorchard@bea.com>, "'Cutler, Roger \(RogerCutler\)'" 
<RogerCutler@chevrontexaco.com>, <www-ws-arch@w3.org>, 
<www-ws-arch-request@w3.org>
bcc

Subject
RE: Resource definition



Is the 'means to access a resource' a resource in itself?

I think it's a matter of scope. When I manage a Web site I consider each
network card to be a resource, each HTTP server to be a resource, and each
HTML document to be a resource. When I look at services I take network 
cards
and HTTP servers for granted, but I still think of services as resources.
When I look at data I ignore the service.

arkin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: www-ws-arch-request@w3.org [mailto:www-ws-arch-request@w3.org]On
> Behalf Of James M Snell
> Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 2:47 PM
> To: Mark Baker
> Cc: David Orchard; 'Cutler, Roger (RogerCutler)'; www-ws-arch@w3.org;
> www-ws-arch-request@w3.org
> Subject: Re: Resource definition
>
>
>
> Hmmm.. the assertion that "All Web services have identity, and are
> therefore resources" doesn't seem right to this lurking observer.  I 
view
> "Web Services" as one way of getting to a resource, not as the resource
> itself...
>
> A Resource has an identity and a collection of mechanisms a resource
> consumer can use to get at that resource.  Web services are just one of
> those mechanisms.
>
> I believe my disconnect here is purely a matter of semantics so perhaps
> you could ellaborate a bit more.  What am I missing?
>
> - James Snell
>      IBM Emerging Technologies
>      jasnell@us.ibm.com
>      (559) 587-1233 (office)
>      (700) 544-9035 (t/l)
>      Programming Web Services With SOAP
>          O'Reilly & Associates, ISBN 0596000952
>
>      Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous.
>      Do not be terrified, do not be discouraged, for the Lord your
>      God will be with you whereever you go.    - Joshua 1:9
>
>
>
> Mark Baker <distobj@acm.org>
> Sent by: www-ws-arch-request@w3.org
> 02/18/2003 02:30 PM
>
> To
> David Orchard <dorchard@bea.com>
> cc
> "'Cutler, Roger (RogerCutler)'" <RogerCutler@chevrontexaco.com>,
> www-ws-arch@w3.org
> bcc
>
> Subject
> Resource definition
>
>
>
>
> Dave,
>
> On Tue, Feb 18, 2003 at 12:59:09PM -0800, David Orchard wrote:
> > 1. The W3C TAG should darned well write up what a resource is from a 
web
> > architecture perspective.
>
> Doesn't this count?
>
> "A resource is defined by [RFC2396] to be anything that has identity."
> -- http://www.w3.org/TR/webarch/#identification
>
> Or did you want something more specific than a punt to 2396?
> Personally, I'm quite happy with the punt.
>
> > 2. The WS-Arch group ought to relate a service to a resource *somehow*
>
> I'd suggest that;
>
> "All Web services have identity, and are therefore resources."
>
> is as far as we can go with that, at least until the definition of what
> a Web service is, is figured out.  The current one is still very fuzzy,
> IMO.
>
> MB
> --
> Mark Baker.   Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA.        http://www.markbaker.ca
> Web architecture consulting, technical reports, evaluation & analysis
>
Received on Tuesday, 18 February 2003 18:22:11 GMT

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