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RE: Resource definition

From: David Orchard <dorchard@bea.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:19 -0800
To: <www-ws-arch@w3.org>
Message-ID: <013301c2d7a5$fb7ffd40$f10ba8c0@beasys.com>

You draw the line by adding constraints.  Like, "Web services have an
identity (URI) and follow the SOA constraints as defined by xyz".

Interesting to see who's been lurking...

Cheers,
Dave
> -----Original Message-----
> From: www-ws-arch-request@w3.org [mailto:www-ws-arch-request@w3.org]On
> Behalf Of James M Snell
> Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 3:22 PM
> To: Assaf Arkin
> Cc: David Orchard; 'Cutler, Roger (RogerCutler)'; www-ws-arch@w3.org;
> www-ws-arch-request@w3.org
> Subject: RE: Resource definition
>
>
>
> Ok, that's fine, but where do you draw the line?  If
> everything becomes a
> resource then the idea of a resource begins to lose value.  Simply
> asserting that "All Web services have an identity and are therefore
> resources" doesn't seem to add any value.  Personally, I
> believe that Dave
> Orchard's question in the original note that I responded to
> should have
> been something like "1. The W3C TAG should darned well write up what
> **class of resources are most relevant** from a web architecture
> perspective"  If the answer to that question includes the class of
> resources that describe mechanisms of accessing other resources then
> you've got something valuable because you've narrowed down
> the scope.  If
> the answer is "any resource with an identity" then y'all will just
> continue to spin your wheels and not get anywhere.
>
> Ok, I'm done... shutting up and going back to my corner ;-)
>
> - James Snell
>      IBM Emerging Technologies
>      jasnell@us.ibm.com
>      (559) 587-1233 (office)
>      (700) 544-9035 (t/l)
>      Programming Web Services With SOAP
>          O'Reilly & Associates, ISBN 0596000952
>
>      Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous.
>      Do not be terrified, do not be discouraged, for the Lord your
>      God will be with you whereever you go.    - Joshua 1:9
>
>
>
> "Assaf Arkin" <arkin@intalio.com>
> 02/18/2003 03:02 PM
>
> To
> James M Snell/Fresno/IBM@IBMUS, "Mark Baker" <distobj@acm.org>
> cc
> "David Orchard" <dorchard@bea.com>, "'Cutler, Roger \(RogerCutler\)'"
> <RogerCutler@chevrontexaco.com>, <www-ws-arch@w3.org>,
> <www-ws-arch-request@w3.org>
> bcc
>
> Subject
> RE: Resource definition
>
>
>
> Is the 'means to access a resource' a resource in itself?
>
> I think it's a matter of scope. When I manage a Web site I
> consider each
> network card to be a resource, each HTTP server to be a
> resource, and each
> HTML document to be a resource. When I look at services I
> take network
> cards
> and HTTP servers for granted, but I still think of services
> as resources.
> When I look at data I ignore the service.
>
> arkin
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: www-ws-arch-request@w3.org
> [mailto:www-ws-arch-request@w3.org]On
> > Behalf Of James M Snell
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 2:47 PM
> > To: Mark Baker
> > Cc: David Orchard; 'Cutler, Roger (RogerCutler)';
> www-ws-arch@w3.org;
> > www-ws-arch-request@w3.org
> > Subject: Re: Resource definition
> >
> >
> >
> > Hmmm.. the assertion that "All Web services have identity, and are
> > therefore resources" doesn't seem right to this lurking
> observer.  I
> view
> > "Web Services" as one way of getting to a resource, not as
> the resource
> > itself...
> >
> > A Resource has an identity and a collection of mechanisms a resource
> > consumer can use to get at that resource.  Web services are
> just one of
> > those mechanisms.
> >
> > I believe my disconnect here is purely a matter of
> semantics so perhaps
> > you could ellaborate a bit more.  What am I missing?
> >
> > - James Snell
> >      IBM Emerging Technologies
> >      jasnell@us.ibm.com
> >      (559) 587-1233 (office)
> >      (700) 544-9035 (t/l)
> >      Programming Web Services With SOAP
> >          O'Reilly & Associates, ISBN 0596000952
> >
> >      Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous.
> >      Do not be terrified, do not be discouraged, for the Lord your
> >      God will be with you whereever you go.    - Joshua 1:9
> >
> >
> >
> > Mark Baker <distobj@acm.org>
> > Sent by: www-ws-arch-request@w3.org
> > 02/18/2003 02:30 PM
> >
> > To
> > David Orchard <dorchard@bea.com>
> > cc
> > "'Cutler, Roger (RogerCutler)'" <RogerCutler@chevrontexaco.com>,
> > www-ws-arch@w3.org
> > bcc
> >
> > Subject
> > Resource definition
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dave,
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 18, 2003 at 12:59:09PM -0800, David Orchard wrote:
> > > 1. The W3C TAG should darned well write up what a
> resource is from a
> web
> > > architecture perspective.
> >
> > Doesn't this count?
> >
> > "A resource is defined by [RFC2396] to be anything that has
> identity."
> > -- http://www.w3.org/TR/webarch/#identification
> >
> > Or did you want something more specific than a punt to 2396?
> > Personally, I'm quite happy with the punt.
> >
> > > 2. The WS-Arch group ought to relate a service to a
> resource *somehow*
> >
> > I'd suggest that;
> >
> > "All Web services have identity, and are therefore resources."
> >
> > is as far as we can go with that, at least until the
> definition of what
> > a Web service is, is figured out.  The current one is still
> very fuzzy,
> > IMO.
> >
> > MB
> > --
> > Mark Baker.   Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA.
http://www.markbaker.ca
> Web architecture consulting, technical reports, evaluation & analysis
>
Received on Tuesday, 18 February 2003 18:35:02 GMT

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