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RE: D-AG004: Ensures platform independence

From: Anne Thomas Manes <anne@manes.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:28:37 -0500
To: "Abbie Barbir" <abbieb@nortelnetworks.com>, "Vinoski, Stephen" <VINOSKI@iona.com>
Cc: <www-ws-arch@w3.org>
Message-ID: <CJEIKEMEBAONGDDNLEKFMEODDOAA.anne@manes.net>
D-AG004: Ensures platform independenceI agree with Steve. I think that we
need to avoid requiring the details or object model of Java or any language.

Web services are platform independent and language independent simply
because we don't attempt to specify the mappings between XML and language
semantics.

All Web service specifications are defined using XML, and all data types are
specified as XML types. It's up to the implementors to map those types to
language types. For the Java community, the JCP is defining standard type
mappings as part of JAX-RPC. Microsoft is defining the type mappings for the
.NET community. I recommend that we continue to let the language communities
define their own language type mappings.

Anne
  -----Original Message-----
  From: www-ws-arch-request@w3.org [mailto:www-ws-arch-request@w3.org]On
Behalf Of Abbie Barbir
  Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 11:30 AM
  To: Vinoski, Stephen
  Cc: www-ws-arch@w3.org
  Subject: RE: D-AG004: Ensures platform independence


  steve,

  this why the work like JAVA, as opposed just JAVA.

  cheers

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Vinoski, Stephen [mailto:VINOSKI@iona.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 11:28 AM
    To: Barbir, Abbie [CAR:1A00:EXCH]
    Cc: www-ws-arch@w3.org
    Subject: RE: D-AG004: Ensures platform independence


    Supporting heterogeneity requires supporting multiple programming and
scripting languages. Stating that we need to "adopt the use of platform
independent languages such as Java" to help ensure that we allow for the use
of multiple programming models is a bit of an oxymoron. For true platform
and language independence, we must avoid requiring the details or object
model of Java or any other programming language to "show through" at the Web
Services level.

    --steve
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Abbie Barbir [mailto:abbieb@nortelnetworks.com]
      Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 10:49 AM
      To: michael.mahan@nokia.com; Austin.D@ic.grainger.com
      Cc: www-ws-arch@w3.org; Christopher Ferris
      Subject: RE: D-AG004: Ensures platform independence


      Mike and all,

      Per the last teleconference call D-AG004 is still open and must be
closed by the next call.
      In this e-mail I attempt to close the issues regarding the design
Goal.
      The goal as stated
      "
      D-AG0004
      ensures platform independence of web services components in a way that
does not preclude any programming model nor assume any particular mode of
communication between the individual components

      "

      In my original e-mail I have riased some issues regarding the goal,
but unfortunatly I did not get good track.

      So here are my $.002,

      Discussion:
      ------------------

      In order to ensure platform independence, we need the following:
      1. Adopt the use of platform independent languages such as JAVA.
      2. Have very well defined interfaces to web components that are
general and could be invoked using appropriate protocols.
      3. Try to use XML and other markup techniques that ensures the ability
to invoke web components using variaty of protocols.


      The design goal can coexist with D-AG0003: is sufficiently extensible
and  with D-AG0005:provides simplicity and ease-of-use that does not impose
high barriers to entry for users of web services. In my opnion, the
appropriate designs for platform independence interfaces can help the above
two stated golas.


      Furtheremore, Some issues were raised regarding the interdependecne of
D-AG004 and D-AG011. Here D-AG011 is restated:

      CURRENT GOAL STATEMENT:
      Web Services are consistent with the existing web and its heterogenous
environment and distributed architecture to the greatest extent possible.

      Discussion -2:
      -------------------

      I really do think that the requirement of platform independence does
contradict the above design goal. In my view designing for platform
independence must be consistant with D-AG011. So in this regard, D-AG011 can
feed into D-AG004.

      Crtitical Success Factors:
      ----------------------------------

      The design goal can be achieved through the insistance on using
platform independent development tools and languages such as XML and JAVA.
The interfaces to web components must also be properly designed.

      Derived Requirements:
      --------------------------------
      1. Consistent definition of web components
      2. Good definition of web components Interfaces.
      3. Use XML based protocols for invoking the web components.


      Current Recommendation:
      --------------------------------------
      The goal should stay as written


      cheers
      abbie




        -----Original Message-----
        From: michael.mahan@nokia.com [mailto:michael.mahan@nokia.com]
        Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 10:48 AM
        To: Austin.D@ic.grainger.com; Barbir, Abbie [CAR:1A00:EXCH]
        Cc: www-ws-arch@w3.org
        Subject: RE: D-AG004: Ensures platform independence


        Hi Abbie,

        In message [1], I questioned whether platform independence goal is
separate from D-AG0011. Can you comment on that.

        Thx, Mike


        [1]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0181.html
          -----Original Message-----
          From: ext Austin, Daniel [mailto:Austin.D@ic.grainger.com]
          Sent: March 12, 2002 05:41 PM
          To: 'Abbie Barbir'
          Cc: 'www-ws-arch@w3.org'
          Subject: RE: D-AG004: Ensures platform independence


          Hi Abbie,

              The text of this goal was quoted directly from the group
charter, so we have to be careful about amending it. But I think these are
good questions. What are the answers?

          Regards,

          D-
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Abbie Barbir [mailto:abbieb@nortelnetworks.com]
            Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 1:19 PM
            To: www-ws-arch@w3.org
            Cc: Abbie Barbir
            Subject: D-AG004: Ensures platform independence




            This message kicks off discussion on goal 4, "ensures platform
independence of web services"

            Please comment on goal wording, success factors, relation to
other goals, etc.

            The goal as stated
            "
            D-AG0004
            ensures platform independence of web services components in a
way that does not preclude any programming model nor assume any particular
mode of communication between the individual components

            "

            Discussion:
            --------------
            I think that the goal as stated provides a nobel idea that
software designers would like to comply with. However, it seems to me that

            1. A proper definition of the term components must be provided,
where the line would be drawn on where and how the platform idependence
could be achieved.

            2. In addition, does plateform independence means the
independence from the actual operating system and/or programming language.

            3. In order to be able not to preclude any programming model,
what kind of interface do we assume for web services components?

            4. In order not to assume any mode of communications between the
individual components, how would data be exchanged (if need be ?)


            Other issues:
            -------------

            5. Is this redundant with D-AG0003: is sufficiently extensible
to allow for future evolution of technology and of business goals

             when combined with D-AG0005:provides simplicity and ease-of-use
that does not impose high barriers to entry for users of web services

            Critical success factors
            ------------------------

            How platform independence could be measured, verified and
achieved? and who will verify that?

            cheers
            abbie
Received on Tuesday, 19 March 2002 12:28:13 GMT

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