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RE: WSA-WG: q. about WS defn

From: Abbie Barbir <abbieb@nortelnetworks.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:27:50 -0400
Message-ID: <87609AFB433BD5118D5E0002A52CD75402FB36C4@zcard0k6.ca.nortel.com>
To: Geoff Arnold <Geoff.Arnold@Sun.COM>, www-ws-arch@w3.org

"Oh no! Not AGAIN!!"

We have just wasted the last 4 months.

I suggest that we all pack and go home.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geoff Arnold [mailto:Geoff.Arnold@Sun.COM]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 1:37 PM
> To: www-ws-arch@w3.org
> Subject: WSA-WG: q. about WS defn
> I'm sure this email is bound to cause some people to groan, "Oh
> no! Not AGAIN!!". However in back-channel conversations
> several people have encouraged me to risk that and submit
> it anyway. So here goes.
> I am confused about the basic definition of a web service, as 
> quoted in the
> Requirements doc. I recognize that some of the phraseology 
> was probably
> chosen to be deliberately ambiguous in the spirit of compromise,
> but I hope that doesn't mean that there is no room for improvement.
>      [Definition: A Web service is a software application 
> identified by a
>       URI, whose interfaces and binding [sic] are capable of being 
> defined,
>       described and discovered by XML artifacts and supports direct
>       interactions with other software applications using XML based
>       messages via internet-based protocols]
> Questions:
> (1) What does "by XML artifacts" mean? Definition/description and 
> discovery
> are quite different types of activity, and the meaning of 
> "by" is quite
> different in the two cases. "Defined by X" is ambiguous: it can 
> mean "defined
> in terms of X" or "defined by an active entity X". On the other hand,
> "discovered by X" is idiomatically unambiguous, and implies that X 
> is an active
> entity capable of performing discovery. Are "XML artifacts" active 
> entities?
> Is the reader supposed to interpret this section as:
>       whose interfaces and bindings are capable of being defined and
>       described in terms of XML artifacts, and whose interfaces and
>       bindings may be discovered using queries constructed from XML
>       artifacts
> (2) What does "and supports direct interactions with other 
> software" mean?
> I guess I have trouble with the words "supports", "direct", 
> and "other".
> In part the confusion arises from the preceding context, 
> which includes
> an implicit reference to an entity that is capable of discovering the
> service; in this case, the "other" would seem to refer to some third
> party - but this is probably NOT what was intended. "Support" is 
> horribly
> vague (intentionally so?), while "direct" would seem to imply that
> INDIRECT interactions (whatever they might be) are NOT supported - but
> why not?
> (3) There is no explicit connection between the "interfaces and 
> binding [sic]"
> and the "XML based messages via internet-based protocols". It's not 
> clear that
> an implicit connection is strong enough. One approach might 
> be to shift
> the "XML based messages via internet-based protocols" to the 
> beginning.
> This would lead to something along the following lines.
>       Definition: A Web service is a software application 
> identified by a
>       URI, whose interfaces and bindings are defined in terms of XML 
> based
>       messages transported by internet protocols. This definition, 
> which is
>       described using XML artifacts, can be discovered by 
> other software
>       applications, which may then interact with the web service in
>       a manner prescribed by its definition.
> This does include some repetition, but it also seems a lot clearer.
> Geoff Arnold
> Sun Microsystems Laboratories
> Burlington, MA
Received on Friday, 26 July 2002 10:28:25 UTC

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