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RE: Web Service Definition [Was "Some Thoughts ..."]

From: Joseph Hui <jhui@digisle.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:09:36 -0800
Message-ID: <C153D39717E5F444B81E7B85018A460B081B271A@ex-sj-5.digisle.com>
To: "Vinoski, Stephen" <steve.vinoski@iona.com>
Cc: <www-ws-arch@w3.org>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vinoski, Stephen [mailto:steve.vinoski@iona.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 2:03 PM
> To: Joseph Hui
> Cc: www-ws-arch@w3.org
> Subject: RE: Web Service Definition [Was "Some Thoughts ..."]
> 
> And as I explained on the teleconference: discovery isn't a necessary
> part of the definition, because I can write a system where 
> applications
> access web services via URIs and communicate with them via standard
> protocols, all without the aid of any discovery service such 
> as UDDI or
> WS-Inspection. I have real-world proof of this: some of 
> IONA's customers
> have web services in production right now and are not using a 
> discovery service in their systems.
> As for description: the fact that XML-RPC has been around for several
> years now and has facilitated the creation of web services without the
> need for a description language ala WSDL should be proof enough that
> description is not a necessary part of the definition, either.

The point of contention wasn't whether such web services exist,
but rather should they be touted as web services built to standards.
I'm uncomfortable that adding D&D to the definition may alienate the
installed base you mentioned -- the "do-no-harm" principle, one might
say; but I find it hard to ignore the benefit that D&D can bring
in helping to promote the practice of *standardized* web services.

Now, I think we can work this out.
Since your properties list does not use RFC-2119 terms like MUST
SHOULD MAY, and it's not been said a WS must possess all properties
listed.  That leaves the room for saying a WS must possess some of
the properties listed.  In that case, then what problem will adding
D&D to the list cause?  Would this work for you?

> On another note, in another email, you said:
> >WSP08 is necessary because the property to be described
> >and to be discovered differentiates the Web Service computing
> >model from other contenders, such as EDI, CORBA, ...
> 
> Just wanted to correct you: CORBA allows services to be described and
> discovered. Description has always been a part of CORBA via its
> Interface Definition Language (IDL), and discovery occurs through
> standard services such as Naming (like telephone white pages) or a
> Trader (like telephone yellow pages).

I know what you're talking about. 
I knew I should have qualified the D&D reference with
"by ubiquitous means."  No biggie.

Joe Hui
Exodus, a Cable & Wireless service
Received on Thursday, 28 February 2002 18:09:46 GMT

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