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Re: daml:item - still confused

From: Jim Hendler <hendler@cs.umd.edu>
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 17:25:13 -0400
Message-Id: <p05200f33bb2a4eaa94df@[10.0.1.2]>
To: Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org>
Cc: webont <www-webont-wg@w3.org>

The need for it by DAML-S is also, in my mind, new evidence as Bijan 
is now working with the WSD WG on the mapping to the Semantic Web, 
and thus is one of the people "representing" SW/OWL in the services 
WGs.  I agreed that adding it to DL seemed a lot of work, but adding 
it to Full seems like it would take very little - especially as, as 
Bijan pointed out in his original raising of the issue [1] - it is 
essentially a syntactic shortcut that doesn't change the semantics
  - JH




At 4:18 PM -0500 7/3/03, Dan Connolly wrote:
>On Thu, 2003-07-03 at 15:32, Jim Hendler wrote:
>>  OK, history is we received a request from Bijan Parsia to add
>>  daml:item to OWL.  I passed his mail to the group [1] - he explained
>>  that DAML-S finds daml:item important because they need to be able to
>>  build "typed lists".
>>   Jeremy responded [2] to point out that if we added this it would be
>>  to Full, not DL, since DL doesn't allow the use of lists.  Jeremy is
>>  correct, but that doesn't answer the question - Bijan didn't ask to
>>  add it to DL, he asked to add it to OWL (i.e. Full would address his
>>  issue).
>>   Today I said on the telecon that I thought this related to the issue
>>  of lists, and was told it didn't - but all the previous email about
>>  this issue has been in the context of lists, and we have it indexed
>>  under issue 5.5 which is the issue of lists.
>>   So I would like to ask if anyone would actually oppose the addition
>>  of owl:item to Owl Full.  Otherwise I will (in separate email) propose
>>  we open issue 5.5, add to the closing text the inclusion of owl:item
>>  in Owl Full, and then reclose the issue.
>
>Er... in the meeting where you accepted the action, I believe
>you asked for advice on re-opening issue 5.5 and then indicated
>that you did *not* intend to reopen it.
>
>The records are very brief; they don't confirm (nor deny)
>my recollection
>26 Jun
>http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Jun/0350.html
>17 Jun
>http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Jun/0289.html
>
>In response to the comment...
>http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webont-comments/2003May/0065.html
>
>I was expecting you to just read from the record of issue 5.5...
>er... aha! actually, 2.5 is the relevant issue...
>http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/webont-issues.html#I2.5-Closed-Sets
>
>So I was expecting something like...
>
>-----
>Subject: Re: daml:item
>
>>  This could be an RDF issue, but given OWL's relationship to DAML+OIL,
>I
>>  think it could reasonably be handled by WebOnt.
>>
>>  DAML+OIL had daml:item. While not strictly necessary, i've been
>>  encountering a fair number of DAML+OIL ontologies which use it, and the
>>  alternative formulations (e.g., for typed lists) is fairly cumbersome.
>>
>>  So, I'd like it added back in.
>
>Integrating the DAML List vocabulary into OWL is the subject of
>
>http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/webont-issues.html#I2.5-Closed-Sets
>
>The working group decided, 7 October 2002, to
>close this issue by using rdf:parseType="Collection".
>
>We avoid re-opening issues unless we have new information
>that wasn't available to the working group at the time
>of the decision. The working group was aware of the usage of
>the DAML List vocabulary when we made the decision, so
>we're not inclined to re-open it.
>
>Please let us know if you find this satisfactory.
>
>----------
>
>But now that I go thu the excercise of writing it,
>(a) there's no record that we gave any thought
>to daml:item at all, and (b) there isn't really
>any recorded justification for our decision that
>says *why* Bijan should be satisfied that we
>took daml:item out.
>
>
>So now I think his comment *is* new information,
>and I think it would be reasonable for the chair
>to re-open it.
>
>
>
>>    -JH
>>
>>
>>  [1]
>>  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Jun/0290.html
>>  [2]
>>
>>  --
>>  Professor James Hendler                        hendler@cs.umd.edu
>>  Director, Semantic Web and Agent Technologies         301-405-2696
>>  Maryland Information and Network Dynamics Lab.     301-405-6707 (Fax)
>>  Univ of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742     *** 240-277-3388 (Cell)
>>  http://www.cs.umd.edu/users/hendler      *** NOTE CHANGED CELL NUMBER
>>  ***
>--
>Dan Connolly, W3C http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/

-- 
Professor James Hendler				  hendler@cs.umd.edu
Director, Semantic Web and Agent Technologies	  301-405-2696
Maryland Information and Network Dynamics Lab.	  301-405-6707 (Fax)
Univ of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742	  *** 240-277-3388 (Cell)
http://www.cs.umd.edu/users/hendler      *** NOTE CHANGED CELL NUMBER ***
Received on Thursday, 3 July 2003 17:25:18 GMT

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