W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-validator@w3.org > March 2016

Re: W3 Markup Validator - HTML5 <time> tag

From: Shane McCarron <shane@aptest.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 16:31:02 -0600
Message-ID: <CAOk_reFb8F2czibZCwhfA6LR_WZRA6_ZPS2MVh=0hXYak3fhdw@mail.gmail.com>
To: testing Cakewalk Websites <testing8467@cakewalkwebsites.com>
Cc: "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi>, "www-validator@w3.org" <www-validator@w3.org>
well - it hasn't been "addressed" - but I filed a bug report.  I think it
is silly for schema.org to require a non-conforming use of the datetime
attribute.

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 4:23 PM, testing Cakewalk Websites <
testing8467@cakewalkwebsites.com> wrote:

> Hi Shane,
>
> Thank you for informing me that this issue has been addressed.
>
> Best,
>
> *Kobbe*
> Web Design & Programming
>
> <http://cakewalkwebsites.com/>
>
> <http://cakewalkwebsites.com/>Cakewalk websites
> <http://cakewalkwebsites.com/>
> <http://promorockit.com/>
> *PHONE*
> +1 951 285-6600
>
> *POST ADDRESS*
> P.O. Box 1090
> Lake Elsinore, CA 92531
> USA
>
>
> On 1 Mar 2016, at 14:02, Shane McCarron <shane@aptest.com> wrote:
>
> I filed a bug about this with schema.org
>
> On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 8:17 AM, Jukka K. Korpela <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi>
> wrote:
>
>> 29.2.2016, 19:47, testing Cakewalk Websites wrote:
>>
>> When correctly adding structured data for opening hours according the
>>> schema.org <http://schema.org> and tested with the Google Structured
>>> Data Testing Tool
>>> <https://developers.google.com/structured-data/testing-tool/>: (enter
>>> this URL: http://www.oldtownvethospital.com)
>>> <p itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/VeterinaryCare"><time
>>> itemprop="openingHours" datetime=
>>>
>> > "Mo-Fr 08:30-17:30">Mon - Fri: 8:30 am - 5:30 pm</time></p>
>>
>>> and shows up as “All good” in “VeterinaryCare (1)”.
>>>
>>
>> It is still invalid HTML. The use of the datetime attribute of <time> in
>> the schema, https://schema.org/openingHours , conflicts with the current
>> HTML specs (and, as far as I know, any version of HTML that has the <time>
>> element). It uses its own syntax for a date range, and a date range is not
>> a thing that you can specify as a datetime attribute value. The values, as
>> described at
>> https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/semantics.html#attr-time-datetime
>> can only represent moments of time, a time range of a specific kind such
>> as a day, a month, or a year, or a duration (amount of time) – not a range
>> of time specified by its start and end. If the definition will ever be
>> extended to allow such ranges, it is virtually certain that it will then
>> use an ISO 8601 conformant notation, which is rather different from what
>> Schema.org <http://schema.org> uses.
>>
>> The “Nu Html Checker” shows this as an error.
>>>
>>
>> It’s just doing its job. It checks the document against applicable HTML
>> (and some other) specifications.
>>
>> According to W3schools
>>> <http://www.w3schools.com/tags/att_time_datetime.asp>, the <time>
>>> attribute cannot contain day names (Monday - Sunday).
>>>
>>
>> Let’s ignore w3schools since it is not in any way relevant in resolving
>> this issue (and, in addition to being non-authoritative, it is unreliable).
>>
>>  1.
>>>     *Error*: Bad value |Mo-Fr 08:30-17:30| for attribute |datetime| on
>>>     element |time|
>>>     <
>>> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/single-page.html#the-time-element
>>> >:
>>>
>>
>> Here the error message explains the problem with the value, and it links
>> to the WHATWG HTML specification (using a link to a huge document
>> containing the entire spec; above, I have mentioned a more handy address,
>> pointing to a multipage version of the spec).
>>
>>     The literal did not satisfy the time-datetime format.
>>>      From line 222, column 79; to line 222, column 137
>>>     |naryCare"><time itemprop="openingHours" datetime="Mo-Fr
>>>     08:30-17:30">Mon - |
>>>
>>
>> This means that "Mo-Fr 08:30-17:30" is not valid, since it does not match
>> any of the allowed patterns for the attribute value. This is a purely
>> syntactic statement, and the validator’s job ends here.
>>
>> But the point is that a date range *cannot* be represented as a datetime
>> value at all. In practice, it is not a matter of making a mistake when
>> trying to write a range in the correct syntax; there simply is no correct
>> syntax for it in this context.
>>
>> Consequently, using the <time> element at all is wrong, as a matter of
>> HTML rules. I suggest that you raise the issue in some suitable forum
>> related to Schema.org <http://schema.org> development. If you ask me,
>> they should simply use some other element and attribute names, even though
>> it means that in “pure” HTML (as opposite to HTML extended with custom
>> elements), you would need to use <span>.
>>
>> Yucca
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Shane McCarron
> Managing Director, Applied Testing and Technology, Inc.
>
>
>


-- 
Shane McCarron
Managing Director, Applied Testing and Technology, Inc.


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Received on Tuesday, 1 March 2016 22:31:33 UTC

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