W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-validator@w3.org > September 2004

Re: [VE][64] Error Message Feedback

From: Jukka K. Korpela <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi>
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 23:52:03 +0300 (EEST)
To: Rolf Pfister <pfister@pci.unizh.ch>
Cc: www-validator@w3.org
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0409102330250.28023@korppi.cs.tut.fi>

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004, Rolf Pfister wrote:

> the validator thinks this is wrong:
> <PRE>
>   m*v<SUP>2</SUP>
> </PRE>

The validator doesn't really think. It simply reports that the document
does not comply with the document type that you have declared. And indeed
all the published HTML specifications restrict the content model of the
PRE element so that e.g. the SUP element is excluded.

> I use this construct several times in this file.

And you have superscripts and subscripts of different kinds there,
and even images. The superscript 2 issue itself could be solved by using
the special character SUPERSCRIPT TWO (which you can write in HTML
using &sup2; for example), but for most other issues there is no such

> If its really wrong how could I avoid it?

Whether it really matters is debatable. The syntax rules for PRE are based
on the principle that no change in font size should be allowed there,
since the very idea of PRE is to present preformatted text exactly as
written so that characters remain exactly positioned with respect to each
other. But such a principle cannot really be presented in the formal
syntax (DTD); hence the syntax is unnecessarily restrictive (e.g., forbids
<font>, although <font> could be used just for a colour change). Moreover,
the principle might not matter in all uses of PRE - if you violate the
principle, the characters might not stay positioned as they are, in all
circumstances, but this might be acceptable.

So one approach is to use a modified DTD. Naturally your document would
not then comply with HTML specifications, but they might still work, and
you could still use a validator to check the syntax (so that you deviate
from "official" syntax only when you really want to). Using HTML 4.01
as the basis, the relevant syntax rule is


in the Strict version and

<!ENTITY % pre.exclusion

in the Transitional version. (In Transitional, APPLET, FONT, and BASEFONT
are not allowed at all, so they need not be listed in the exclusion list.)

This lists those inline elements that are not allowed inside PRE, directly
or indirectly. So by removing an element from the list you make it
allowed, in your modified DTD.

On the other hand, a different - and perhaps better - approach is to
consider whether you could make the markup comply with HTML
specifications, perhaps even dispensing with the PRE element altogether.
This might be a long process, but it might also result in a better
rendering of the formulas you have. For ideas on presenting mathematical
expressions using HTML (and CSS), see my http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/math/
(I think many of your formulas can be relatively easily presented without
using PRE, while some - especially those with largish quotients - might be
rather tricky.)

Jukka "Yucca" Korpela, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Received on Friday, 10 September 2004 20:52:37 UTC

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