> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 15:13:26 +0500 > From: nazgul@utopia.com (Kee Hinckley) > Subject: Re: Session tracking ... > > It does seem to me that the magic-cookie design is very closely tied to > existing password systems, and in that respect I think it's worth > considering whether the two mechanisms might be tied together more tightly > (a user password system with expirations makes perfect sense, for > instance). I haven't delved into that side of the protocol enough to say > any more. This is a very good point, that some of the "identifiers" (session, cookie, whatever) should have a similar life cycle as security credentials (where passwds are a valid instance of server side authentication). > > Shopping carts embedded in ids is a cute hack, but it's a red herring. The > real goal in my mind is to find a way to identify a user without requiring > them to carry a separate ID for every store they walk into. It seems to me that a "user centric" view of the web would call for client side generation of the credentials, that could be reused at many different storefront businesses.i.e. shopping at a mall rather than a department store for one stop shopping. eturn-Path: amosley%pubspo.hq.af.mil@hq.hq.af.mil Return-Path: <amosley%pubspo.hq.af.mil@hq.hq.af.mil> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA23904; Mon, 1 May 1995 08:41:11 +0500 Received: from LCS.MIT.EDU (mintaka.lcs.mit.edu) by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA04185; Mon, 1 May 1995 08:41:10 +0500 Received: from hq.hq.af.mil by MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU id aa10482; 1 May 95 8:40 EDT Received: from pubspo.hq.af.mil by hq.af.mil (4.1/Mork-1.0) id AA02491; Mon, 1 May 95 08:42:53 EDT Received: by pubspo.hq.af.mil with Microsoft Mail id <2FA4FFFC@pubspo.hq.af.mil>; Mon, 01 May 95 08:36:28 PDT From: "Mosley, Art" <amosley@pubspo.hq.af.mil> To: www <www-talk@www10.w3.org> Subject: HTML 2.0/3.o Date: Mon, 01 May 95 07:30:00 PDT Message-Id: <2FA4FFFC@pubspo.hq.af.mil> Encoding: 8 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Content-Length: 142 Does anyone know about HTML 2.0/3.0 - - SGML directly on the Internet? Where I could how it works or how to get information? Thanks Art eturn-Path: mattison@freenet.victoria.bc.ca Return-Path: <mattison@freenet.victoria.bc.ca> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA14231; Mon, 1 May 1995 10:50:15 +0500 Received: from vifa1.freenet.victoria.bc.ca ([199.60.222.1]) by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA06103; Mon, 1 May 1995 10:50:08 +0500 Received: (from mattison@localhost) by vifa1.freenet.victoria.bc.ca (8.6.9/8.6.9) id HAA21442; Mon, 1 May 1995 07:51:06 -0700 Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 07:51:05 -0700 (PDT) From: David Mattison <mattison@freenet.victoria.bc.ca> Subject: Re: HTML 2.0/3.o To: amosley@pubspo.hq.af.mil Cc: Multiple recipients of list <www-talk@www10.w3.org> In-Reply-To: <2FA4FFFC@pubspo.hq.af.mil> Message-Id: <Pine.2.2.9505010713.A20084@vifa1> Content-Length: 814 According to Laura Lemay's TEACH YOURSELF WEB PUBLISHING WITH HTML IN A WEEK (SAMS Publishing, 1995), the HTML 2 spec is at: http://www.hal.com/users/connolly/html-spec/index.html The HTML+ 3 draft spec is at: http://www.w3.org/hypertext/WWW/MarkUp/HTMLPlus/htmlplus_1.html She gives the above link host as info.cern.ch, but I understand that's been changed to what I've given. Lemay also lists a site with the HTML+ 3 draft spec in PostScript format: http://www.ics.uci.edu/WWWdocs/papers/draft-raggett-www-html-00.ps.gz David Mattison Gopher/Web Co-editor Victoria Free-Net mattison@freenet.victoria.bc.ca On Mon, 1 May 1995, Mosley, Art wrote: > > > > Does anyone know about HTML 2.0/3.0 - - SGML directly on the Internet? > Where I could how it works or how to get information? > > Thanks > Art eturn-Path: montulli@netscape.com Return-Path: <montulli@netscape.com> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA01242; Mon, 1 May 1995 16:12:22 +0500 Received: from strumpet.mcom.com (unknown.netscape.com) by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA08583; Mon, 1 May 1995 16:09:56 +0500 Received: (from montulli@localhost) by strumpet.mcom.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) id NAA18159; Mon, 1 May 1995 13:03:55 -0700 From: "Lou Montulli" <montulli@netscape.com> Message-Id: <9505011303.ZM18157@strumpet.mcom.com> Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 13:03:53 -0700 In-Reply-To: Joerg Rhiemeier <rhiemeir@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> "Re: Dynamic HTML documents with client pull" (Apr 28, 6:57am) References: <199504281049.MAA03204@kastor.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> X-Face: 2%:,dh#NyL=h+${dpRhMgWq_:WU|hRg,gd:q08ah!sc~a^V?8x}:6YSw>)K1n"&>ebiBHx1H5#zr*6qoFw%K,:yyH,'D7^54~HcZ4%CEdVGu#GE3T5WMztPF1GIhXU\-vT2{u61n8cJzcY7SxCzRl'O-`f"93K.yFdPJXrG#|7R X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.1.0 22feb94 MediaMail) To: rhiemeir@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de, Multiple recipients of list <www-talk@www10.w3.org> Subject: Re: Dynamic HTML documents with client pull Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 1843 On Apr 28, 6:57am, Joerg Rhiemeier wrote: > Subject: Re: Dynamic HTML documents with client pull > > In message <v0151010cabc660f3d752@[130.237.112.5]>, > Ulf.Kronman@it.ki.se wrote: > > >First, sorry if this is some kind of a FAQ or has been debated here before... > > > >I was looking at Web page yesterday, when Netscape (1.1 mac) suddenly > >started to download a new page by itself. I thougth that I had clicked on a > >link by mistake, but this repeated several times without my intervention. > >Very annoying, because I hadn't time to read the first page before the > >second came. > > The <META...> element is legal HTML 3.0, and the HTTP-EQUIV attribute > also. Its purpose is to add HTTP headers, for example > > <META HTTP-EQUIV=Expires CONTENT="Sat, 6 May 1995 12:00:00 GMT"> > > creates the following HTTP header: > > Expires: Sat, 6 May 1995 12:00:00 GMT > > However, AFAIK, there is no such thing as a `Refresh' header. > > I am pretty sure that this is Netsc[r]ape-spectific. I haven't found it > in the IETF HTTP drafts, and I have to agree with Ulf Kronman that such a > behaviour is evil, rude and nasty. This header was suggested by other members of the www-talk list back in December or January so we implemented it. It took more than a year for FORMS to make it into any spec, in fact they still are not in any official spec, so it's no suprise that the Refresh header isn't in the HTTP spec yet. > > This means that Netscrape does not only add extensions to their > browser, but also to their *server* which is much, much worse! You should do a little more research. Extra headers are added by cgi scripts and require no server modifications. The refresh header can be added to any HTTP server. :lou -- Lou Montulli http://www.mcom.com/people/montulli/ Netscape Communications Corp. eturn-Path: hartill@ooo.lanl.gov Return-Path: <hartill@ooo.lanl.gov> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA05185; Mon, 1 May 1995 16:42:35 +0500 Received: from dxmint.cern.ch by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA08861; Mon, 1 May 1995 16:40:20 +0500 Received: from ooo.lanl.gov by dxmint.cern.ch (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA20912; Mon, 1 May 1995 22:40:12 +0200 Received: by ooo.lanl.gov (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA274290807; Mon, 1 May 1995 14:40:07 -0600 From: Rob Hartill <hartill@ooo.lanl.gov> Message-Id: <199505012040.AA274290807@ooo.lanl.gov> Subject: centering proposal To: www-talk@w3.org Date: Mon, 1 May 95 14:40:06 MDT X-Organization: Theoretical Division, T-8. Los Alamos National Laboratory X-Snail: LANL Theoretical Divi' T-8, MS B285, P.O Box 1663, Los Alamos NM 87545 X-Fax: (505) 667 5585 X-Phone: (505) 665-2280 or 667-5336 (T-8 Secretary) Reply-To: hartill@lanl.gov Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Content-Length: 662 Maybe someone out there with influence in the development of HTML can do something with this... It'd be useful to have a means of centering a section of text relative to a specific point. e.g. text on left ... more text on the right side could be displayed as, text on left ... more text on the right side maybe by using tags such as, <P ALIGN="CENTERED">text on left <MIDPOINT>...</MIDPOINT> more text on the right side</P> The only way to do this right now is with tables, and that makes it unfriendly w.r.t non-tables browsers. At least with the above, the text would remain visible, even if it isn't displayed centered. rob. eturn-Path: bert%let.rug.nl@www10.w3.org Return-Path: <bert%let.rug.nl@www10.w3.org> Received: from mintaka.lcs.mit.edu by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AD07467; Mon, 1 May 1995 17:27:48 +0500 Received: from www10.w3.org by MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU id aa14712; 1 May 95 15:27 EDT Received: from freya.let.rug.nl by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA08272; Mon, 1 May 1995 15:20:16 +0500 Received: from grid.let.rug.nl by freya.let.rug.nl with ESMTP (1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA124286006; Mon, 1 May 1995 21:20:06 +0200 Message-Id: <199505011920.AA124286006@freya.let.rug.nl> Received: by grid.let.rug.nl (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA033196005; Mon, 1 May 1995 21:20:05 +0200 From: Bert Bos <bert@let.rug.nl> Subject: Re: URLs in saved documents To: martin@mrrl.lut.ac.uk Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 21:20:05 +0200 (METDST) Cc: www-talk@www10.w3.org In-Reply-To: <199504291334.OAA03658@pride.mrrl.lut.ac.uk> from "Martin Hamilton" at Apr 29, 95 09:36:45 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1476 Martin Hamilton writes: |It would be nice if WWW browsers gave you the option of including the |URLs of hyperlinks in the saved versions of HTML documents (perhaps |some do already?). For instance, an easy way of doing this would be |for | | <A HREF="http://www.acme.com/">Acme Widgets, Inc</A> | |to become | | Acme Widgets, Inc <URL:http://www.acme.com/> | |in a saved (say) text or PostScript version of the document. There |are probably quite a few more, and fancier, ways of doing this - like |footnotes, or an automagically generated list of references at the |end of the document ? The answer is, again, style sheets: using the notation of my own proposal -- soon to be replaced with a better one -- you could express this as, for example: *A.insertafter: <!HREF> maining that the formatter inserts text at the end of every A element, consisting of "<", followed by the value of the element's HREF attribute, followed by ">". The current list of proposed style properties is not complete. Properties applicable to output to anything other than the screen are missing. One such property is probably one to put text into a footnote at the bottom of a printed page. |Just a thought :-) Good thought. Bert -- Bert Bos Alfa-informatica <bert@let.rug.nl> Rijksuniversiteit Groningen <http://www.let.rug.nl/~bert/> Postbus 716, NL-9700 AS GRONINGEN eturn-Path: gwe3409@drtn009.ca.boeing.com Return-Path: <gwe3409@drtn009.ca.boeing.com> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AB11787; Mon, 1 May 1995 18:13:41 +0500 Received: from atc.boeing.com by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA09387; Mon, 1 May 1995 18:11:26 +0500 Received: by atc.boeing.com (5.57) id AA21539; Mon, 1 May 95 14:56:18 -0700 Message-Id: <9505012156.AA21539@atc.boeing.com> Received: from drtn009.ca.boeing.com by splinter.boeing.com with SMTP (1.37.109.14/16.2) id AA099714986; Mon, 1 May 1995 14:49:46 -0700 Received: by drtn009.ca.boeing.com (1.37.109.8/16.2) id AA04045; Mon, 1 May 1995 14:51:09 -0700 From: Gerald W. Edgar <gwe3409@drtn009.ca.boeing.com> Subject: Re: Private CGI-dir - a security risk To: www-talk@www10.w3.org Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 14:51:09 -0700 (PDT) Cc: wendy@drtn001.ca.boeing.com, cingalls@drtn001.ca.boeing.com In-Reply-To: <9504292302.AA12734@atc.boeing.com> from "www-talk@www10.w3.org" at Apr 29, 95 04:02:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 650 In one note about CGI from Vidar Madsen a mension that a CGI may overwrite files that the "webmaster" account owns. This may include configuration files. There is a simple solution. Have the httpd run under a second userid/groupid. Permission could be given to read the configuration file, but since the daemon executes under another account it would not have permission by default to destroy the files. In this situation one must be careful to give appropriate permission to directories and files for public read and execute permission only as needed. One must exercize caution in giving write privilages. Gerald Edgar "My opinions" eturn-Path: drtr1@cus.cam.ac.uk Return-Path: <drtr1@cus.cam.ac.uk> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA18300; Tue, 2 May 1995 06:36:58 +0500 Received: from bootes.cus.cam.ac.uk by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA14576; Tue, 2 May 1995 06:36:48 +0500 Received: from grus.cus.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.3] (ident = root) by bootes.cus.cam.ac.uk with smtp (Smail-3.1.29.0 #36) id m0s6FIf-000BzaC; Tue, 2 May 95 11:35 BST Received: by grus.cus.cam.ac.uk (Smail-3.1.29.0 #36) id m0s6FIe-0007b0C; Tue, 2 May 95 11:35 BST Message-Id: <m0s6FIe-0007b0C@grus.cus.cam.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 2 May 95 11:35 BST Sender: drtr1@cus.cam.ac.uk (David Robinson) To: www-talk@www10.w3.org Subject: Re: CGI spec revisited Cc: drtr1@cam.ac.uk, paulp@cerf.net From: drtr1@cam.ac.uk (David Robinson) Reply-To: drtr1@cam.ac.uk (David Robinson) Content-Length: 475 On Thu, 27 Apr 1995 01:27:42 +0500 Paul Phillips wrote: >Is there a more definitive copy of the CGI 1.1 spec than the one at >hoohoo.ncsa.uiuc.edu? It has more the sense of a tutorial than a rigorous >specification. I have attempted to write such a specification. So for, I have defined the base spec, without any operating-system specifics. For example, PATH_TRANSLATEED is an optional feature. The URL is <URL:http://www.ast.cam.ac.uk/%7Edrtr/cgi.html> David Robinson. eturn-Path: wmperry@spry.com Return-Path: <wmperry@spry.com> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AB15509; Tue, 2 May 1995 09:32:51 +0500 Received: from monolith (monolith.spry.com) by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA16313; Tue, 2 May 1995 09:32:45 +0500 Message-Id: <m0s6I4i-00000EC@monolith> Date: Tue, 2 May 95 06:33 PDT From: wmperry@spry.com To: hartill@ooo.lanl.gov Errors-To: wmperry@spry.com Reply-To: wmperry@spry.com X-Face: O~Rn;(l][/-o1sALg4A@xpE:9-"'IR[%;,,!m7</SYF`{vYQ(&RI1&EiH[FvT;J}@f!4kfz x_!Y#=y{Uuj9GvUi=cPuajQ(Z42R[wE@{G,sn$qGr5g/wnb*"*ktI+,CD}1Z'wxrM2ag-r0p5I6\nA [WJopW_J.WY; Cc: Multiple recipients of list <www-talk@www10.w3.org> Subject: Re: centering proposal In-Reply-To: <199505012040.AA274290807@ooo.lanl.gov> References: <199505012040.AA274290807@ooo.lanl.gov> Content-Length: 813 Rob Hartill writes: > > Maybe someone out there with influence in the development of HTML > can do something with this... > > It'd be useful to have a means of centering a section of text relative > to a specific point. e.g. > > text on left ... more text on the right side > > could be displayed as, > > text on left ... more text on the right side > > maybe by using tags such as, > > <P ALIGN="CENTERED">text on left <MIDPOINT>...</MIDPOINT> more text on the right side</P> > > The only way to do this right now is with tables, and that makes it > unfriendly w.r.t non-tables browsers. At least with the above, the text > would remain visible, even if it isn't displayed centered. I believe you can do this with <tab align=right> in the current draft of HTML 3.0. -Bill P. eturn-Path: rick@cts.com Return-Path: <rick@cts.com> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AB22088; Tue, 2 May 1995 11:01:34 +0500 Received: from crash.cts.com by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA01038; Tue, 2 May 1995 11:01:26 +0500 Received: from stout1 by crash.cts.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #23) id m0s6JR6-0000zpC; Tue, 2 May 95 08:00 PDT Message-Id: <m0s6JR6-0000zpC@crash.cts.com> Date: Tue, 2 May 95 08:00 PDT X-Sender: rick@crash.cts.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hartill@ooo.lanl.gov, Multiple recipients of list <www-talk@www10.w3.org> From: rick@cts.com (Rick Stout) Subject: Re: centering proposal Content-Length: 687 >text on left ... more text on the right side > >could be displayed as, > > text on left ... more text on the right side > >maybe by using tags such as, > ><P ALIGN="CENTERED">text on left <MIDPOINT>...</MIDPOINT> more text on the right side</P> > >The only way to do this right now is with tables, and that makes it >unfriendly w.r.t non-tables browsers. At least with the above, the text >would remain visible, even if it isn't displayed centered. Tabs are supposed to do this in HTML 3.0. See http://www.hpl.hp.co.uk/people/dsr/html/tabs.html -Rick Stout -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -Rick Stout (rick@cts.com) eturn-Path: charlab@embratel.net.br Return-Path: <charlab@embratel.net.br> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA15937; Tue, 2 May 1995 13:10:42 +0500 Received: from rjo04 ([200.255.253.244]) by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA02492; Tue, 2 May 1995 13:10:34 +0500 Received: from 200.255.254.249 (drjo022A249.embratel.net.br [200.255.254.249]) by rjo04 (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA06965 for <www-talk@www10.w3.org>; Tue, 2 May 1995 14:10:26 -0300 Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 14:10:26 -0300 Message-Id: <199505021710.OAA06965@rjo04> From: charlab@embratel.net.br Subject: Avoiding a blank line. To: www-talk@www10.w3.org X-Mailer: AIR Mail 3.X (SPRY, Inc.) Content-Length: 614 Hi folks, If I write according to specifications, and use <P ALIGN=CENTER> instead of <CENTER>, I get things centered, but also get a blank line, like here: <HR ALIGN=CENTER SIZE=5 WIDTH=80%> <I><P ALIGN=CENTER>2 de maio</I> How can I avoid this line? I would prefer to have the HR line and the text closer. Also, how could I define a blank line for browsers other than Netscape, which seems one of the few to accept <P> as blank lines, like here: <P> <P> _______________________________ c h a r l a b Sergio Charlab Jornal do Brasil *JB no WEB* --- > http://www.ibase.br/~jb/index.html eturn-Path: hartill@ooo.lanl.gov Return-Path: <hartill@ooo.lanl.gov> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA22665; Tue, 2 May 1995 14:20:41 +0500 Received: from ooo.lanl.gov by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA03201; Tue, 2 May 1995 14:20:39 +0500 Received: by ooo.lanl.gov (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA132998826; Tue, 2 May 1995 12:20:26 -0600 From: Rob Hartill <hartill@ooo.lanl.gov> Message-Id: <199505021820.AA132998826@ooo.lanl.gov> Subject: Re: centering proposal To: www-talk@www10.w3.org Date: Tue, 2 May 95 12:20:25 MDT In-Reply-To: <m0s6JR6-0000zpC@crash.cts.com>; from "Rick Stout" at May 2, 95 8:00 am X-Organization: Theoretical Division, T-8. Los Alamos National Laboratory X-Snail: LANL Theoretical Divi' T-8, MS B285, P.O Box 1663, Los Alamos NM 87545 X-Marks-The-Spot: Doh ! Reply-To: hartill@lanl.gov Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Content-Length: 260 Re: centering about a given point.. > Tabs are supposed to do this in HTML 3.0. > > See http://www.hpl.hp.co.uk/people/dsr/html/tabs.html Are there any browsers which handle "tabs" yet ? I'd like to experiment. I just tried it with Arena - no luck. rob eturn-Path: wmperry@spry.com Return-Path: <wmperry@spry.com> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA23830; Tue, 2 May 1995 14:38:52 +0500 Received: from monolith (monolith.spry.com) by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA03385; Tue, 2 May 1995 14:38:51 +0500 Message-Id: <m0s6Mqw-00000HC@monolith> Date: Tue, 2 May 95 11:39 PDT From: wmperry@spry.com To: hartill@ooo.lanl.gov Errors-To: wmperry@spry.com Reply-To: wmperry@spry.com X-Face: O~Rn;(l][/-o1sALg4A@xpE:9-"'IR[%;,,!m7</SYF`{vYQ(&RI1&EiH[FvT;J}@f!4kfz x_!Y#=y{Uuj9GvUi=cPuajQ(Z42R[wE@{G,sn$qGr5g/wnb*"*ktI+,CD}1Z'wxrM2ag-r0p5I6\nA [WJopW_J.WY; Cc: Multiple recipients of list <www-talk@www10.w3.org> Subject: Re: centering proposal In-Reply-To: <199505021820.AA132998826@ooo.lanl.gov> References: <199505021820.AA132998826@ooo.lanl.gov> Content-Length: 409 Rob Hartill writes: > > > Re: centering about a given point.. > > > Tabs are supposed to do this in HTML 3.0. > > > > See http://www.hpl.hp.co.uk/people/dsr/html/tabs.html > > Are there any browsers which handle "tabs" yet ? > I'd like to experiment. I just tried it with Arena - no luck. Emacs-w3 handles them partially. Its next on the block for complete implementation before tables. -Bill P. eturn-Path: rick@cts.com Return-Path: <rick@cts.com> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA28995; Tue, 2 May 1995 15:21:08 +0500 Received: from crash.cts.com by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA03734; Tue, 2 May 1995 15:21:04 +0500 Received: from stout1 by crash.cts.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #23) id m0s6NVF-0001iKC; Tue, 2 May 95 12:21 PDT Message-Id: <m0s6NVF-0001iKC@crash.cts.com> Date: Tue, 2 May 95 12:21 PDT X-Sender: rick@crash.cts.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hartill@ooo.lanl.gov, Multiple recipients of list <www-talk@www10.w3.org> From: rick@cts.com (Rick Stout) Subject: Re: centering proposal Content-Length: 549 At 02:28 PM 5/2/95 +0500, Rob Hartill wrote: > > >Re: centering about a given point.. > >> Tabs are supposed to do this in HTML 3.0. >> >> See http://www.hpl.hp.co.uk/people/dsr/html/tabs.html > >Are there any browsers which handle "tabs" yet ? >I'd like to experiment. I just tried it with Arena - no luck. > >rob I haven't found one yet. I've tried Arena, Netscape (Win and X), Mosaic (Win and X),and WinWeb. No go on these either. -Rick -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -Rick Stout (rick@cts.com) eturn-Path: alice@datalib.ubc.ca Return-Path: <alice@datalib.ubc.ca> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AB29256; Tue, 2 May 1995 15:22:56 +0500 Received: from hub.ubc.ca by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA03760; Tue, 2 May 1995 15:22:48 +0500 Received: from datalib.ubc.ca by hub.ubc.ca (4.1/1.14) id AA10391; Tue, 2 May 95 12:22:46 PDT Received: by datalib.ubc.ca (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA25476; Tue, 2 May 1995 12:14:40 -0700 Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 12:03:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Alice Iordache <alice@datalib.ubc.ca> Subject: Httpd-log files To: www-talk@www10.w3.org Message-Id: <Pine.3.85.9505021253.A25428-0100000@mccoy> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 849 I'm using getstats for my monthly statistics in Data Library. For using this program I have to specify the log file which for WWW is httpd-log. This file used to include all the accesses starting with the earliest date and ending at the most recent one - all the information in one file. Some time ago it started to break the information and automatically create a separate httpd-log file for each week or even worse for one day. Is there something I can do to prevent that and what is the reason of suddenly creating these files. Thank you for your help! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Alice Iordache Internet: alice@datalib.ubc.ca UBC Data Library Data Services Assistant Phone: (604)822-5587 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - eturn-Path: brian@organic.com Return-Path: <brian@organic.com> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AC14566; Tue, 2 May 1995 17:54:14 +0500 Received: from eat.organic.com by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA05109; Tue, 2 May 1995 17:54:13 +0500 Received: (from brian@localhost) by eat.organic.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA23772; Tue, 2 May 1995 14:54:02 -0700 Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 14:54:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Behlendorf <brian@organic.com> Subject: Re: Session tracking To: Kee Hinckley <nazgul@utopia.com> Cc: Multiple recipients of list <www-talk@www10.w3.org> In-Reply-To: <v02110137abcc1310d4c6@[204.57.39.6]> Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9505021452.X27478-0100000@eat.organic.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 4910 On Tue, 2 May 1995, Kee Hinckley wrote: > >> It also needs to be possible to > >> defeat cacheing - and in that respect I see the cookie proposal as very > >> much akin to the standard name/password mechanism. > > > >Er, I hope that's a typo. Any proposal made from here on out needs to be > >able to support caching to some extent - publishing on the web is going > > Not a typo. And I'm not saying that caching shouldn't be possible, just > that there need to be times when I want to defeat it. Agreed - I was saying that any proposal for web mechanisms these days must not make caching impossible, so we're not conflicting here. The problem with the cookie proposal was that it made proxy-defeating the *norm*. > It's necessary when > I provide a page that is tailored in some way for a particular user. Yes - if someone is connecting to a financial company and wants to see how their portfolio is doing, sure, that can't be cached (it'll most likely be encrypted anyways). But the question is if you should base that a Session-ID or a real user-password system. I would vote for the latter. The real solution is one where the financial company sends the investor a portfolio-app (Java or otherwise) which queries dowjones.com via HTTP (or better yet, dowjones.com broadcasts stats via multicasting, which the portfolio app listens to giving you info real time on your portfolio). But the debate here is whether using Session-ID is appropriate for tailoring information.... and I still say no, because I think for every application where someone can show it's useful, there's a much better long term solution. > >In fact, I'd support language in the spec that said "it is strongly > >recommended that servers not generate content that depends on a > >particular session-ID value" - what would be ideal is if proxy caches > > We differ fundamentally there. I see the Web as a distributed application > mechanism with the ability to personalize pages to any individual's taste. > Generating session-id specific content is one of my primary goals. Yes. Distributed. Absolutely. Custom-creating content for every access is the opposite. Distribution works *best* when the objects being flung around the net are as generic as possible (thus highly cacheable), and the customization happens as close to the client as possible. Make the clients just as smart, if not smarter than, the servers. I will admit this doesn't solve content-provider's problems and needs right now. Those of us who want to provide custom content really do have to rely on password-based mechanisms or URL hacks for now - but I don't think the tool-builders need to waste their time with short term solutions which will just make the content-providers suffer longer (if a little less). > >did forward GET If-modified-since requests, *with* the session-ID's, so > >servers who want it can still get good data without having to dish out > >the whole file for every request. HTTP-NG sounds like it'll have a way > > This gets into where I feel session-ids overlap with security. I'd like not > to serve certain pages to a person with a different session-id. And perhaps > not even let them be cached. So *don't* use Session-ID's for sensitive information! There are lots of other security work going on, the last thing we need is a parallel mechanism. Besides, Session-Id *can't* provide authentication information by itself, since it's the server issuing them. The server could issue them when a page is accessed via usual HTTP user authentication of course, but the thought was to eliminate that. > >Agreed... which is why I don't think they should carry a session-ID for > >every store they visit either. :) > > That gets to the one major advantage of client-generated session-ids. Of > course then one needs to determine how to generate a unique user id. There > are two options that immediately come to mind. Email addresses work pretty > well (that's what we use to search for an ID if someone loses theirs - we > just mail the result of the search to them - First Virtual-style security > :-). The most useful option though would really be a public-key. If every > user had (a unique) one (or every browser, if must be) then we would have > an *extremely* useful session-id. If nothing else, it would give the Feds > nightmares! Again, *authentication* is entirely separate and should be out of the scope of Session-ID. Eventually, yes, public-key crypto will allow people to authenticate themselves without requiring huge user databases on the server end, but that's not quite the same issue here. Server X should be able to discern my path through their service without getting any personal info about me. Brian --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-- brian@organic.com brian@hyperreal.com http://www.[hyperreal,organic].com/ eturn-Path: clapp@engr.orst.edu Return-Path: <clapp@engr.orst.edu> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA19425; Tue, 2 May 1995 22:23:21 +0500 Received: from engr.orst.edu by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA07509; Tue, 2 May 1995 22:23:15 +0500 Received: from zero (zero-atm.ENGR.ORST.EDU [198.106.199.103]) by engr.orst.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA02978 for <www-talk@www10.w3.org>; Tue, 2 May 1995 19:22:48 -0700 Received: by zero (5.x/ENGR-Client) id AA01059; Tue, 2 May 1995 19:21:27 -0700 Message-Id: <9505030221.AA01059@zero> To: www-talk@www10.w3.org From: "Andrew S. Clapp" <clapp@engr.orst.edu> Date: Tue, 02 May 1995 19:21:26 -0700 Sender: clapp@engr.orst.edu Content-Length: 1740 Where could I find a list of these codes? -ASC > Mike Meyer wrote: > > >> Can someone explain where one should use a 403 response versus a 400 > >> response? Is using 400 only for mailformed requests, and 400 for > >> requests with a command that isn't understood a reasonable > >> interpretation? > > and Paul Phillips responded: > > > My spec indicates that 403 implies greater server understanding than 400 > > does. A 403 means the server tried to service the request, and failed, > > while a 400 means that the server knew based on the request that it would > > fail. > > Ummmm, almost. 400 Bad Request indicates that the server was unable > to understand the request due to it being malformed. 403 Forbidden > indicates that the server *did* understand the request, but refuses to > service it for some reason that remains unknown to the client. > > > There does seem to be some abiguity here, but both codes instruct the > > client not to repeat the request, so I don't think it's critical. > > There is a certain amount of overlap between 400 and all 4xx responses, > but I don't consider that to be ambiguous. I'll change the spec so > that the purpose of the two codes is clarified. > > Hmmmm, I could just change the example Reason Phrases to > > 400 You screwed up > 403 Piss off > > ;-) > > ....Roy T. Fielding Department of ICS, University of California, Irvine USA > <fielding@ics.uci.edu> > <URL:http://www.ics.uci.edu/dir/grad/Software/fielding> Andrew S. Clapp &_ ______ /\ /\ /\ ______\ Oregon State University www.nero.net O7/O \/ \/ \/ \/ / COE Computer Services eturn-Path: namita@henna.iitd.ernet.in Return-Path: <namita@henna.iitd.ernet.in> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AB01834; Wed, 3 May 1995 00:39:28 +0500 Received: from sangam.ncst.ernet.in by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA08416; Wed, 3 May 1995 00:39:23 +0500 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sangam.ncst.ernet.in (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with UUCP id KAA23419 for www-talk@www10.w3.org; Wed, 3 May 1995 10:09:35 +0530 Received: from niyati.ernet.in by henna.iitd.ernet.in (4.1/SMI-4.1-MHS-7.0 ) id AA05853; Wed, 3 May 95 09:49:10 IST X-Organisation: Indian Institute of Technology, New Delhi. Received: by niyati.ernet.in (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA00533; Wed, 3 May 1995 09:47:42 +0530 Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 09:47:42 +0530 From: namita@henna.iitd.ernet.in (Namita) Message-Id: <9505030417.AA00533@niyati.ernet.in> To: www-talk@www10.w3.org X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 10 subscribe eturn-Path: verga@ercole.cefriel.it Return-Path: <verga@ercole.cefriel.it> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA26702; Wed, 3 May 1995 04:55:27 +0500 Received: from mailer.cefriel.it (ercole.cefriel.it) by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA10242; Wed, 3 May 1995 04:55:23 +0500 Received: from punto.cefriel.it by mailer.cefriel.it (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18267; Wed, 3 May 95 10:51:19+010 Received: by punto.cefriel.it (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15332; Wed, 3 May 95 09:52:07+010 From: verga@ercole.cefriel.it (Alberto Verga) Message-Id: <9505030852.AA15332@punto.cefriel.it> Subject: Re: HTML 2.0/3.o To: amosley@pubspo.hq.af.mil Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 09:52:06 +0100 (GMT+0100) Cc: www-talk@www10.w3.org In-Reply-To: <2FA4FFFC@pubspo.hq.af.mil> from "Mosley, Art" at May 1, 95 09:36:01 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 697 > Does anyone know about HTML 2.0/3.0 - - SGML directly on the Internet? > Where I could how it works or how to get information? > > Thanks > Art > Here! http://www.w3.org/hypertext/WWW/MarkUp/MarkUp.html for specs http://www.w3.org/hypertext/WWW/Tools/Overview.html for tools These are good starting points.... -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Alberto Verga e-mail : verga@mailer.cefriel.it CEFRIEL - Politecnico di Milano Via Emanueli, 15 voice : +39-2-66100083 20126 Milano (Italy) fax : +39-2-66100448 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- eturn-Path: Emmanuel.Ponsardin@edelweb.fr Return-Path: <Emmanuel.Ponsardin@edelweb.fr> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA27157; Wed, 3 May 1995 04:58:29 +0500 Received: from edelweb.fr by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA10282; Wed, 3 May 1995 04:58:25 +0500 Received: from champagne.edelweb.fr (champagne.edelweb.fr [193.51.12.33]) by edelweb.fr (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA10950 for <www-talk@www10.w3.org>; Wed, 3 May 1995 10:58:23 +0200 Received: from moet.edelweb.fr (moet.edelweb.fr [193.51.12.38]) by champagne.edelweb.fr (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA12747 for <www-talk@www10.w3.org>; Wed, 3 May 1995 10:58:23 +0200 From: Emmanuel Ponsardin <Emmanuel.Ponsardin@edelweb.fr> Received: (ponsardi@localhost) by moet.edelweb.fr (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA00493 for www-talk@www10.w3.org; Wed, 3 May 1995 10:58:22 +0200 Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 10:58:22 +0200 Message-Id: <199505030858.KAA00493@moet.edelweb.fr> To: www-talk@www10.w3.org Subject: imagemaps Content-Length: 392 I use imagemaps on my web pages (imagemap.c v1.2) and i have some trouble: - first of all, my error_log file (ncsa web server) is full of "killing CGI process XXXX". Why? - and as i test my pages on local network, when i click on my imagemap, it s very long to connect to the url requested... are all imagemap scripts so unperformants? Thanks for your help... Emmanuel Ponsardin eturn-Path: brianm@itthartford.com Return-Path: <brianm@itthartford.com> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA04391; Wed, 3 May 1995 05:58:29 +0500 Received: from interlock.itthartford.com by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA10854; Wed, 3 May 1995 05:58:26 +0500 Received: by interlock.itthartford.com id AA02273 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for www-talk@www10.w3.org); Wed, 3 May 1995 05:58:12 -0400 Message-Id: <199505030958.AA02273@interlock.itthartford.com> Received: by interlock.itthartford.com (Internal Mail Agent-1); Wed, 3 May 1995 05:58:12 -0400 To: www-talk@www10.w3.org Subject: Support for Multiple Submit buttons on Forms Date: Tue, 02 May 95 06:06:56 -0400 From: brianm@itthartford.com X-Mts: smtp Content-Length: 288 Does there exist a way to support multiple submit buttons within a single form ????. I would like to have the executable associated with the form take a different logic path based on which button is selected... eg. help button. Thanks in advance for your help... Brian eturn-Path: lilley@afs.mcc.ac.uk Return-Path: <lilley@afs.mcc.ac.uk> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA07234; Wed, 3 May 1995 06:22:22 +0500 Received: from norse.mcc.ac.uk by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA11059; Wed, 3 May 1995 06:22:19 +0500 Received: from afs.mcc.ac.uk (actually cguhpc.cgu.mcc.ac.uk) by norse.mcc.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Wed, 3 May 1995 11:21:47 +0100 From: lilley <lilley@afs.mcc.ac.uk> Message-Id: <1362.9505031021@afs.mcc.ac.uk> Subject: Re: HTML 2.0/3.o To: mattison@freenet.victoria.bc.ca Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 11:21:36 +0100 (BST) Cc: www-talk@www10.w3.org In-Reply-To: <Pine.2.2.9505010713.A20084@vifa1> from "David Mattison" at May 1, 95 10:51:41 am Organisation: Computer Graphics Unit, University of Manchester, UK Phone: +44 0161 275 6045 Fax: +44 0161 275 6040 Operating-System: some HP unix thingy X-Uri: http://info.mcc.ac.uk/CGU/staff/lilley/lilley.html X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha3] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1452 David Mattison said: > According to Laura Lemay's TEACH YOURSELF WEB PUBLISHING WITH HTML IN A > WEEK (SAMS Publishing, 1995), the HTML 2 spec is at: > > http://www.hal.com/users/connolly/html-spec/index.html > > The HTML+ 3 draft spec is at: > > http://www.w3.org/hypertext/WWW/MarkUp/HTMLPlus/htmlplus_1.html Beware anything that refers to HTML+, that is a sure sign it is out of date. For HTML 2.0: http://www.w3.org/hypertext/WWW/MarkUp/html-spec/index.html For HTML 3.0: http://www.hpl.hp.co.uk/people/dsr/html/CoverPage.html For SGML as a MIME type: ftp://ifi.uio.no/pub/SGML/MIME-SGML/draft-levinson-sgml-02.txt -- Chris Lilley +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Technical Author, Manchester and North HPC Training & Education Centre| +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Computer Graphics Unit, | Email: Chris.Lilley@mcc.ac.uk | | Manchester Computing Centre, | Voice: +44 61 275 6045 | | Oxford Road, Manchester, UK.M13 9PL | Fax: +44 61 275 6040 | +-------------------------------------+ BioMOO: ChrisL | | URI: http://info.mcc.ac.uk/CGU/staff/lilley/lilley.html | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | "The first W in WWW will not wait." François Yergeau | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ eturn-Path: news@reznor.larc.nasa.gov Return-Path: <news@reznor.larc.nasa.gov> Received: from dxmint.cern.ch by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA06962; Wed, 3 May 1995 10:55:05 +0500 Received: from www0.cern.ch by dxmint.cern.ch id AA23749; Wed, 3 May 1995 16:54:57 +0200 Received: from dxmint.cern.ch by www0.cern.ch (5.0/SMI-4.0) id AA19465; Wed, 3 May 1995 16:54:54 --100 Received: from reznor.larc.nasa.gov by dxmint.cern.ch id AA23722; Wed, 3 May 1995 16:54:52 +0200 Received: by reznor.larc.nasa.gov (8.6.10/server2.4) id OAA07016; Wed, 3 May 1995 14:54:48 GMT To: www-talk@www0.cern.ch Path: usenet From: Larry Matthias <l.e.matthias@larc.nasa.gov> Newsgroups: mail.www-talk Subject: HTTPD,Informix and the Web Date: 3 May 1995 14:54:47 GMT Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA USA Lines: 47 Message-Id: <3o85fn$5df@reznor.larc.nasa.gov> Nntp-Posting-Host: artos.larc.nasa.gov Content-Length: 1452 Greetings Fellow Earthlings, I am trying to setup a Web site that accesses an Informix database. I am using the NCSA server and their CGI interface. I have written my applications in ESQL/C. Now the tricky part. I can execute my program at the command line and enter data as HTTPD will The database is accessed and I can actually see data records fly by (amazing my program works). BUT when the HTTPD demon tries to do this it fails with: There is problem with your query! The following SQL error has occured at open_database_esql!! The Error Code is -457 in database: Database server terminated unexpectedly. Ok, so I talked with tech support and we all think it must have something to do with the environment that the demon is executing under. I modified the C code to set the following: TBCONFIG DBPATH INFORMIXDIR SQLEXEC After I set these values I printed them. They look ok, but the program STILL fails. Therefore, I am interested in talking to, emailing, faxing, or whatever to people who have setup web sites that integrate the HTTPD demon with Informix Online. Any help that you give would be greatly appreciated. Larry -------------------------- Larry Matthias Lockheed Engineering and Sciences Company Phone: (804) 766-9726 --> Yes this old technology still works! Fax: (804) 766-9601 Email: l.e.matthias@larc.nasa.gov eturn-Path: lilley@afs.mcc.ac.uk Return-Path: <lilley@afs.mcc.ac.uk> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA08825; Wed, 3 May 1995 11:06:39 +0500 Received: from norse.mcc.ac.uk by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA13725; Wed, 3 May 1995 11:06:30 +0500 Received: from afs.mcc.ac.uk (actually cguhpc.cgu.mcc.ac.uk) by norse.mcc.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Wed, 3 May 1995 16:05:49 +0100 From: lilley <lilley@afs.mcc.ac.uk> Message-Id: <2617.9505031505@afs.mcc.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Avoiding a blank line. To: charlab@embratel.net.br Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 16:05:45 +0100 (BST) Cc: www-talk@www10.w3.org In-Reply-To: <199505021710.OAA06965@rjo04> from "charlab@embratel.net.br" at May 2, 95 01:22:21 pm Organisation: Computer Graphics Unit, University of Manchester, UK Phone: +44 0161 275 6045 Fax: +44 0161 275 6040 Operating-System: some HP unix thingy X-Uri: http://info.mcc.ac.uk/CGU/staff/lilley/lilley.html X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha3] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1772 Sergio Charlab said: > If I write according to specifications, and use <P ALIGN=CENTER> > instead of <CENTER>, I get things centered, but also get a > blank line, like here: > > <HR ALIGN=CENTER SIZE=5 WIDTH=80%> > <I><P ALIGN=CENTER>2 de maio</I> You have nearly written to specification, but not quite. You have an hr, so following text starts on a new line. A new paragraph is implied by your text. You go into italics. Then you start another new paragraph! Instead, try <HR ALIGN=CENTER SIZE=5 WIDTH=80%> <P ALIGN=CENTER><I>2 de maio</I></P> > How can I avoid this line? I would prefer to have the HR line and > the text closer. The exact spacing depends on how your browser chooses to render this. > Also, how could I define a blank line for browsers > other than Netscape, which seems one of the few to accept <P> as > blank lines, like here: I think that browsers are at liberty to coalesce multiple empty paragraphs. You probably want to use <BR> -- Chris Lilley, Technical Author +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Manchester and North HPC Training & Education Centre | +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Computer Graphics Unit, Email: Chris.Lilley@mcc.ac.uk | | Manchester Computing Centre, Voice: +44 61 275 6045 | | Oxford Road, Manchester, UK. Fax: +44 61 275 6040 | | M13 9PL BioMOO: ChrisL | | URI: http://info.mcc.ac.uk/CGU/staff/lilley/lilley.html | +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ | "The first W in WWW will not wait." François Yergeau | +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ eturn-Path: riyer@seta.com Return-Path: <riyer@seta.com> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA16775; Wed, 3 May 1995 12:08:27 +0500 Received: from dxmint.cern.ch by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA14468; Wed, 3 May 1995 12:08:12 +0500 Received: from seta.com by dxmint.cern.ch id AA09169; Wed, 3 May 1995 18:08:07 +0200 Date: Wed, 3 May 95 12:09:27 EDT From: riyer@seta.com (Ramani K. Iyer) Received: by seta.com (4.1/3.1.012693-SETA Corporation); id AA04997 for www-talk@info.cern.ch; Wed, 3 May 95 12:09:27 EDT Message-Id: <9505031609.AA04997@seta.com> To: www-talk@w3.org Subject: HTTPD server question Content-Length: 669 I am new to this mailing list and am not sure if this has been discussed. But here it goes. Is it possible to have 2 different names resolve to the same server but point to two different home pages. For example : x.y.z should point to page 1 in my sun and address http://a.b.c should point to page 2 in my sun. If yes, how do I do that. We use DNS and I can setup CNAME aliases for my sun so that x.y.z and a.b.c both point to my sun platform. How do I make httpd to resolve these different names and serve the proper home page. If this is not possible if there a workaround. Thanks a lot in advance. - Ramani Iyer eturn-Path: amosley@pubspo.hq.af.mil Return-Path: <amosley@pubspo.hq.af.mil> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA18596; Wed, 3 May 1995 12:26:52 +0500 Received: from hq.af.mil (hq.hq.af.mil) by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA14631; Wed, 3 May 1995 12:26:50 +0500 Received: from pubspo.hq.af.mil by hq.af.mil (4.1/Mork-1.0) id AA21343; Wed, 3 May 95 12:29:05 EDT Received: by pubspo.hq.af.mil with Microsoft Mail id <2FA7D7F8@pubspo.hq.af.mil>; Wed, 03 May 95 12:22:32 PDT From: "Mosley, Art" <amosley@pubspo.hq.af.mil> To: www-talk <www-talk@www10.w3.org> Subject: Re: HTML 2.0/3.o Date: Wed, 03 May 95 11:18:00 PDT Message-Id: <2FA7D7F8@pubspo.hq.af.mil> Encoding: 34 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Content-Length: 1023 I checked to various web locations...thanks. Does anyone know or have any experience with any SGML Browsers for the internet? Or about the efforts to make SGML browsers for the Internet. Thanks ---------- From: www-talk To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: HTML 2.0/3.o Date: 03 May 95 05:21 > Does anyone know about HTML 2.0/3.0 - - SGML directly on the Internet? > Where I could how it works or how to get information? > > Thanks > Art > Here! http://www.w3.org/hypertext/WWW/MarkUp/MarkUp.html for specs http://www.w3.org/hypertext/WWW/Tools/Overview.html for tools These are good starting points.... -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Alberto Verga e-mail : verga@mailer.cefriel.it CEFRIEL - Politecnico di Milano Via Emanueli, 15 voice : +39-2-66100083 20126 Milano (Italy) fax : +39-2-66100448 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- eturn-Path: nsb%nsb.fv.com@www10.w3.org Return-Path: <nsb%nsb.fv.com@www10.w3.org> Received: from mintaka.lcs.mit.edu by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AE15602; Wed, 3 May 1995 17:13:46 +0500 Received: from www10.w3.org by MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU id aa04631; 3 May 95 14:15 EDT Received: from fv.com by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA15446; Wed, 3 May 1995 14:11:17 +0500 Received: from nsb.fv.com (guppy.jvnc.net [192.67.238.69]) by fv.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id OAA18590; Wed, 3 May 1995 14:11:16 -0400 Received: by nsb.fv.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18632; Wed, 3 May 95 14:09:39 EDT Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.nsb.fv.com.sun4.41 via MS.5.6.nsb.fv.com.sun4_41; Wed, 3 May 1995 14:09:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <wjdwPWP0Eyt5AmhdYK@nsb.fv.com> Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 14:09:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Nathaniel Borenstein <nsb@nsb.fv.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <www-talk@www10.w3.org>, brian@organic.com Subject: Re: Session tracking In-Reply-To: <14749.799495825.34@nsb.fv.com> References: <14749.799495825.34@nsb.fv.com> Content-Length: 1967 Excerpts from mail: 3-May-95 Re: Session tracking brian@organic.com (4912) > > Email addresses work pretty > > well (that's what we use to search for an ID if someone loses theirs - we > > just mail the result of the search to them - First Virtual-style security > :-). I know this isn't really a discussion about First Virtual, but I really have to correct something here. Not only is this not "First Virtual-style security", it completely misrepresents how we do business. In particular, if one of our users loses their ID, our policy is that we will NOT email their ID back to them -- in fact, with rare exceptions, their account is permanently lost in such situations, and they have to set up a new one. This is because part (by no means all) of our transactional security comes from the lack of direct correlation between an email address and the associated FV ID. If we let just anyone forge mail to us saying they'd forgotten their ID, and then use a sniffer on the resulting traffic back to the real user, we'd open up a somewhat easier path to fraud than we are willing to tolerate. You don't have to love our model, but you shouldn't criticize it without understanding it. We take security *extremely* seriously, and we have lots of very happy buyers and sellers who are grateful for it. (And our user community and transaction volumes are both growing at a very steady 15% per week, by the way, so we must be doing *something* right.) -- Nathaniel -------- Nathaniel S. Borenstein <nsb@fv.com> Chief Scientist, First Virtual Holdings Incorporated Phone: +1 201 540-8967 (fax 993-3032) FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (& PGP key): nsb+faq@nsb.fv.com -----VIRTUAL YELLOW RIBBON----zldf@clark.net----VIRTUAL YELLOW RIBBON---- > When privacy is outlawed, only Support the Zimmerman Legal Defense! < > outlaws will have privacy! http://www.netresponse.com/zldf < -----VIRTUAL YELLOW RIBBON----zldf@clark.net----VIRTUAL YELLOW RIBBON---- eturn-Path: brian@organic.com Return-Path: <brian@organic.com> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA20607; Wed, 3 May 1995 23:30:09 +0500 Received: from eat.organic.com by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA19442; Wed, 3 May 1995 23:30:07 +0500 Received: (from brian@localhost) by eat.organic.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA05130; Wed, 3 May 1995 20:30:04 -0700 Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 20:30:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Behlendorf <brian@organic.com> Subject: Re: CGI spec revisited To: Marc Hedlund <marc@precipice.org> Cc: Multiple recipients of list <www-talk@www10.w3.org> In-Reply-To: <v02110101abc761d164c5@[38.10.109.32]> Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9505032000.a16415-0100000@eat.organic.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 4288 On Sat, 29 Apr 1995, Marc Hedlund wrote: > Is there any interest for a new look at the CGI spec? I don't just mean at > NCSA.... Yes, definitely. Though the limits of the CGI interface may dictate that there's only so far we can go with this, at which point a real runtime API might be a good thing to look at (like NetScape's). Perhaps someone should start www-servers? > A few issues to kick around: > > * I like NCSA's DOCUMENT_ROOT idea (which Paul mentions). A number of > people have bitched about not being able to reliably determine the document > root or server root across a variety of servers without asking for help > from the humans. I added this many moons ago to my hacked version of httpd, and it found its way to the Apache team which is where I presume NCSA picked it up from. Basically I use it because a lot of my site creation has to be self-contained, where CGI scripts and libraries and data has to sit within one subdirectory. It's also just good programming to abstract away as much as you can, so cases where I had scripts that had to assemble a composite page from a bunch of sub objects which were themselves accessible individually through the web server had to know where to open() files. Anyways, if it makes its way into a spec I would be happy to condition it on "this is only appropriate for those web servers that employ the concept of a document root". For those web sites that change the file system they point to based on IP number or path mapping, the concept of the "document root" still holds. > * Is there any consensus about what should happen to POSTed data if the > client receives a redirect? I remember reading somewhere that POSTs get > turned into GETs if redirected; and a couple of browsers mangle POSTs into > PATH_INFO (!?!) if passed through a proxy, as I recall. Why, I ask you, > why? Shouldn't POSTs stay POSTs? Hmm... I think the problem is that the HTTP method is not expressible in a URI, so I don't think the browser has any choice but to do a GET on a redirect. I don't think this is a CGI issue. > * A couple of people have suggested to me hashing out the horrible ACCEPT > issue in a new CGI spec. I'm not fond of that idea; I think that's an > HTTP-wg problem. However, maybe something could be done to improve the > amount of information scripts receive from the client, apart from MIME-type > content negotiation. If a server and a client are negotiating directly, > the HTTP spec would govern; if a gateway stands between the two, content > negotiation can also include the following.... etc. Negotiation, horrible? :) Nah, what's needed is a common function that the CGI script can call that takes as input the Accept: string and a list of possible data types the script can return, and returns the most appropriate data type (text/html vs. text/html3 for example). The server can't do this ahead of time because only the CGI script knows what data formats it can return. Hmm - it would seem to me that the server should tell the CGI script what its "qs" values are, though, unless it wants to handle the q*qs operations on the Accept: string before it gets passed to the CGI script. Comments? Also for the CGI 1.2 stew: NCSA and Apache diverged unfortunately in the issue of CGI variables with internal redirects. In both, you can point to another URI to be accessed when an error occurs - like having an access which results in a 404 get pointed to /404.html or even /404.cgi, which could potentially return some cool info. 404.cgi needs to know some information about the original access to make some intelligent decisions, but it would be incorrect to just make its CGI environment exactly that of the error-causing access. Thus, Apache introduces a few more variables using REDIRECT_ as the base, and NCSA used ERROR_ as the base. We chose the former as they aren't necessarily the result of an error (like 401 responses for example), and when HTTP/1.1 allows us to send a Base: header then scripts like imagemap can be made one access instead of two using internal redirection. Brian --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-- brian@organic.com brian@hyperreal.com http://www.[hyperreal,organic].com/ eturn-Path: zhang@welchgate.welch.jhu.edu Return-Path: <zhang@welchgate.welch.jhu.edu> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA21160; Thu, 4 May 1995 10:55:01 +0500 Received: from welchgate.welch.jhu.edu (gateway.welch.jhu.EDU) by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA26166; Thu, 4 May 1995 10:54:59 +0500 Received: by welchgate.welch.jhu.edu (4.1/1.34) id AA19498; Thu, 4 May 95 10:55:45 EDT From: zhang@welchgate.welch.jhu.edu (Dongming Zhang) Message-Id: <9505041455.AA19498@welchgate.welch.jhu.edu> Subject: MIME type help. To: www-talk@www10.w3.org Date: Thu, 4 May 95 10:55:44 EDT X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 449 Greeting, I was trying to get one of my local applications launched and was working on "Helper application" with windows. One question is can I launch application without extension, i.e. not specifying the file extention? It was not successful. If someone have such experience, I would appreciate it if you can send some tips to me. Dongming Zhang Welch Information Technology Welch Medical Library Johns Hopkins University eturn-Path: GAYLA.HISS%MSFC34PO@x400gw.msfc.nasa.gov Return-Path: <GAYLA.HISS%MSFC34PO@x400gw.msfc.nasa.gov> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA28103; Thu, 4 May 1995 15:00:54 +0500 Received: from dxmint.cern.ch by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA29138; Thu, 4 May 1995 15:00:49 +0500 Received: from hpx400.msfc.nasa.gov by dxmint.cern.ch id AA10077; Thu, 4 May 1995 21:00:45 +0200 Received: by hpx400.msfc.nasa.gov (1.38.193.5/16.2) id AA02249; Thu, 4 May 1995 13:22:45 -0500 From: GAYLA.HISS%MSFC34PO@x400gw.msfc.nasa.gov Received: by x400gw.msfc.nasa.gov via Worldtalk with X400 (3.0.3/1.55) id WT09128.494; Thu, 04 May 1995 13:22:44 CDT Date: 4 May 95 13:23:00 -0500 To: www-talk@w3.org Subject: WWW/HTML/HTTP Training Message-Id: <M933764.001.2gb40.4133.950504182103Z.CC-MAIL*/O=CCMAIL/PRMD=MSFC/ADMD=TELEMAIL/> Content-Length: 108 Does anyone there know of any good training courses on the WWW or HTML or HTTP? Thanks. eturn-Path: reverman@ka.reg.uci.edu Return-Path: <reverman@ka.reg.uci.edu> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AB10812; Thu, 4 May 1995 16:51:07 +0500 Received: from ka.reg.uci.edu by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA00306; Thu, 4 May 1995 16:51:05 +0500 Received: from [128.200.148.50] (cybernaut.reg.uci.edu) by ka.reg.uci.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16565; Thu, 4 May 95 13:50:46 PDT Date: Thu, 4 May 95 13:50:45 PDT Message-Id: <9505042050.AA16565@ka.reg.uci.edu> From: "Richard Everman" <reverman@ka.reg.uci.edu> Reply-To: "Richard Everman" <reverman@uci.edu> To: www-talk@www10.w3.org Subject: Are there any browsers which handle "tabs" yet ? Content-Length: 616 rob MacWeb 1.00ALPHA3.2 does. Richard ================================================== To: Multiple recipients of list <www-talk@www10.w3.org> From: Rob Hartill <hartill@ooo.lanl.gov> Subject: Re: centering proposal Sender: www-talk@www10.w3.org X-Comment: To sign off, send mail to listproc@mail.w3.org with body DEL WWW-TAL ***K Re: centering about a given point.. > Tabs are supposed to do this in HTML 3.0. > > See http://www.hpl.hp.co.uk/people/dsr/html/tabs.html Are there any browsers which handle "tabs" yet ? I'd like to experiment. I just tried it with Arena - no luck. rob eturn-Path: web@sowebo.charm.net Return-Path: <web@sowebo.charm.net> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA06259; Thu, 4 May 1995 19:59:15 +0500 Received: from sowebo.charm.net by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA01986; Thu, 4 May 1995 19:59:14 +0500 From: web@sowebo.charm.net Message-Id: <9505041959.AA09955@sowebo.charm.net> Received: from web by sowebo.charm.net; Thu, 4 May 95 19:59 EDT Subject: Re: WWW/HTML/HTTP Training To: GAYLA.HISS%MSFC34PO@x400gw.msfc.nasa.gov Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 19:59:47 -0400 (EDT) >From: "CyberWeb" <web@sowebo.charm.net> Cc: www-talk@www10.w3.org In-Reply-To: <M933764.001.2gb40.4133.950504182103Z.CC-MAIL*/O=CCMAIL/PRMD=MSFC/ADMD=TELEMAIL/> from "GAYLA.HISS%MSFC34PO@x400gw.msfc.nasa.gov" at May 4, 95 03:03:31 pm >From: Dr.Web@Stars.com Url: http://WWW.Stars.com/ X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 574 GAYLA.HISS%MSFC34PO@x400gw.msfc.nasa.gov wrote: > > Does anyone there know of any good training courses on the WWW or > HTML or HTTP? Thanks. > Try http://WWW.Stars.com/Tutorial/ which is the slides I used for the WebWorlds and WWW3 conferences. Alan. ___________________________________________________________________ Dr.Web@Stars.com -=*<URL:http://WWW.Stars.com/>*=- 1 (301) 552 0272 Web Developer's Virtual Library * CyberWeb SoftWare * WWW Databases HTML * CGI * Training * Transatlantic Liaison * Per Ardua, Ad Astra eturn-Path: hemang@bcpsparc.ucdavis.edu Return-Path: <hemang@bcpsparc.ucdavis.edu> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AB08758; Thu, 4 May 1995 20:44:45 +0500 Received: from franc.ucdavis.edu by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA02220; Thu, 4 May 1995 20:44:42 +0500 Received: from bcpsparc.ucdavis.edu by franc.ucdavis.edu (8.6.12/UCD3.4) id RAA26634; Thu, 4 May 1995 17:44:30 -0700 Received: by bcpsparc.ucdavis.edu (4.1/UCD2.03) id AA00254; Thu, 4 May 95 17:54:04 PDT Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 17:54:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Hemang Patel <hemang@bcpsparc.ucdavis.edu> To: GAYLA.HISS%MSFC34PO@x400gw.msfc.nasa.gov Cc: Multiple recipients of list <www-talk@www10.w3.org> Subject: Re: WWW/HTML/HTTP Training In-Reply-To: <M933764.001.2gb40.4133.950504182103Z.CC-MAIL*/O=CCMAIL/PRMD=MSFC/ADMD=TELEMAIL/> Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950504175306.235C-100000@bcpsparc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 582 On Thu, 4 May 1995 GAYLA.HISS%MSFC34PO@x400gw.msfc.nasa.gov wrote: > Does anyone there know of any good training courses on the WWW or > HTML or HTTP? Thanks. > Start here: http://www-mcb.ucdavis.edu/people/hemang/bookmarks/www.html I have links to all kinds of things: Learn to write html Learn to write CGIs Server software & setup tools and more __________________________________________________ Hemang Patel Section of Molecular and Cellular Biology Univ. of Ca. Davis hemang@bcpsparc.ucdavis.edu http://www-mcb.ucdavis.edu/people/hemang/home.html eturn-Path: pp%plymouth.ac.uk@www10.w3.org Return-Path: <pp%plymouth.ac.uk@www10.w3.org> Received: from mintaka.lcs.mit.edu by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AJ18367; Fri, 5 May 1995 12:45:00 +0500 Received: from www10.w3.org by MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU id aa24264; 5 May 95 5:40 EDT Received: from sun2.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AB05793; Fri, 5 May 1995 05:36:34 +0500 Message-Id: <9505050936.AB05793@www10.w3.org> Via: uk.ac.plymouth; Fri, 5 May 1995 10:03:44 +0100 Received: from plymouth.ac.uk by argus.plymouth.ac.uk id <02833-0@argus.plymouth.ac.uk>; Fri, 5 May 1995 10:02:11 +0100 From: pp@plymouth.ac.uk To: www-talk@www10.w3.org Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 10:02:05 +0100 Subject: WARNING: message delayed at "plymouth.ac.uk" Content-Length: 377 Your message to "s.barnes@plymouth.ac.uk" (Message Id: msg.05984-0) is currently awaiting delivery by argus.plymouth.ac.uk There is a delay in delivering the message, which, if not resolved, will be returned to you in 63 hours. No further action is required from you at this time since the mail system will automatically attempt to deliver the message for you. eturn-Path: pp%plymouth.ac.uk@www10.w3.org Return-Path: <pp%plymouth.ac.uk@www10.w3.org> Received: from mintaka.lcs.mit.edu by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AV29917; Fri, 5 May 1995 14:25:02 +0500 Received: from www10.w3.org by MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU id aa24712; 5 May 95 6:23 EDT Received: from sun2.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA06110; Fri, 5 May 1995 06:18:49 +0500 Message-Id: <9505051018.AA06110@www10.w3.org> Via: uk.ac.plymouth; Fri, 5 May 1995 10:45:57 +0100 Received: from plymouth.ac.uk by argus.plymouth.ac.uk id <05177-0@argus.plymouth.ac.uk>; Fri, 5 May 1995 10:44:31 +0100 From: pp@plymouth.ac.uk To: www-talk@www10.w3.org Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 10:44:24 +0100 Subject: WARNING: message delayed at "plymouth.ac.uk" Content-Length: 377 Your message to "s.barnes@plymouth.ac.uk" (Message Id: msg.05285-0) is currently awaiting delivery by argus.plymouth.ac.uk There is a delay in delivering the message, which, if not resolved, will be returned to you in 59 hours. No further action is required from you at this time since the mail system will automatically attempt to deliver the message for you. eturn-Path: frystyk@w3.org Return-Path: <frystyk@w3.org> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AB10753; Fri, 5 May 1995 15:40:19 +0500 Received: from www20 (www20.w3.org) by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA10327; Fri, 5 May 1995 15:40:14 +0500 Received: by www20 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA15259; Fri, 5 May 1995 15:40:13 +0500 Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 15:40:13 +0500 From: frystyk@w3.org (Henrik Frystyk Nielsen) Message-Id: <9505051940.AA15259@www20> To: www-talk@w3.org, www-lib@w3.org Subject: Strange problem with GMT on Solaris Reply-To: Henrik Frystyk Nielsen <frystyk@w3.org> X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 774 I have a strange problem on Solaris: The gmtime() function on Solaris seems to return the wrong value. It is one hour ahead of GMT which means that all date header values in a HTTP request or response is one hour ahead of GMT. This is for example the case on our www.w3.org servers which certainly confuses a lot of caches! It is simple to test: time_t calendar = time(NULL); struct tm *gmt = gmtime(&calendar); strftime(buf, 40, "%a, %d %b %Y %H:%M:%S GMT", gmt); Has anybody else heard of this problem? -- cheers -- Henrik Frystyk frystyk@W3.org World-Wide Web Consortium, Tel + 1 617 258 8143 MIT/LCS, NE43-356 Fax + 1 617 258 8682 77 Massachusetts Avenue Cambridge MA 02154, USA eturn-Path: rupesh@altair.shaktiweb.com Return-Path: <rupesh@altair.shaktiweb.com> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA15739; Fri, 5 May 1995 16:19:09 +0500 Received: from altair.shaktiweb.com by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA10644; Fri, 5 May 1995 16:19:02 +0500 Received: (from rupesh@localhost) by altair.shaktiweb.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA04494; Fri, 5 May 1995 13:18:15 -0700 Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 13:18:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Rupesh Kapoor <rupesh@altair.shaktiweb.com> To: www-talk@www10.w3.org Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <199505042328.QAA10898@gaia.internex.net> Message-Id: <Pine.BSD/.3.91.950505131450.4474B-100000@altair.shaktiweb.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1223 On Thu, 4 May 1995 www-talk@www10.w3.org wrote: > I am new to this mailing list and am not sure if this > has been discussed. But here it goes. > Is it possible to have 2 different names resolve to > the same server but point to two different home pages. > For example : x.y.z should point to page 1 in my sun and > address http://a.b.c should point to page 2 > in my sun. > If yes, how do I do that. We use DNS and I can setup CNAME aliases > for my sun so that x.y.z and a.b.c both point to my sun platform. > How do I make httpd to resolve these different names and serve > the proper home page. > If this is not possible if there a workaround. > Thanks a lot in advance. > > - Ramani Iyer > That's not how it works. You have to run two different httpd's (with different root areas, of course). They would run on diff ports, say one on 80 (default) and the other on 2000. URL for the first is http://xyz.com/ and that for the second http://xyz.com:2000/ or http://abcd.com:2000/ assuming that abcd.com is the DNS equivalent of xyz.com, and is a more logical name for the second server. The port number has to be there. Am I missing a point? -- Rupesh eturn-Path: eshyjka%dc.isx.com@www10.w3.org Return-Path: <eshyjka%dc.isx.com@www10.w3.org> Received: from mintaka.lcs.mit.edu by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AS23529; Fri, 5 May 1995 17:34:02 +0500 Received: from www10.w3.org by MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU id aa29185; 5 May 95 10:26 EDT Received: from dc.isx.com ([204.145.242.33]) by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA07623; Fri, 5 May 1995 10:21:55 +0500 Received: from [204.145.242.135] (mac135.dc.isx.com) by dc.isx.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15132; Fri, 5 May 95 10:18:15 EDT Message-Id: <v02110101abcfe4b41c0b@[204.145.242.135]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 10:23:53 -0400 To: www-talk@www10.w3.org From: eshyjka@dc.isx.com (Elisabeth Shyjka) Subject: Server side browser identification Content-Length: 459 I know that there is a way to check what browser is accessing your server. I remember seeing this on a URL somewhere. Does anyone know how this works or where I could get more information? I would like to be able to send a page that is optimized for the accessing browser. Anyone have a good idea where I should start? -Elisabeth ------------------------ Elisabeth Shyjka ISX Corporation (703)351-6420 fax:(703)351-6429 internet:eshyjka@isx.com eturn-Path: ldaly@acs.bu.edu Return-Path: <ldaly@acs.bu.edu> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA01881; Fri, 5 May 1995 18:41:28 +0500 Received: from acs4.bu.edu by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA11945; Fri, 5 May 1995 18:41:27 +0500 Received: by acs4.bu.edu (8.6.11/BU_SmartClient-1.0) id SAA21007; Fri, 5 May 1995 18:37:04 -0400 From: ldaly@acs.bu.edu Message-Id: <199505052237.SAA21007@acs4.bu.edu> Subject: Re: Server side browser identification To: eshyjka@dc.isx.com Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 18:37:04 -0400 (EDT) Cc: www-talk@www10.w3.org In-Reply-To: <v02110101abcfe4b41c0b@[204.145.242.135]> from "Elisabeth Shyjka" at May 5, 95 05:56:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 602 > I know that there is a way to check what browser is accessing your server. > I remember seeing this on a URL somewhere. The URL very well might have been http://hoohoo.ncsa.uiuc.edu/cgi/env.html, which is a listing of most (but not all) CGI environment variables. The variable HTTP_USER_AGENT is the one you're after. --Liza -- There was nothing left to do but lift the lid of the piano and lay the dead Chihuahua inside on the wires ldaly@bu.edu http://metro.turnpike.net/G/gecko eturn-Path: ann@sonic.net Return-Path: <ann@sonic.net> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA02114; Fri, 5 May 1995 18:49:32 +0500 Received: from sonic.net by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA11968; Fri, 5 May 1995 18:49:29 +0500 Received: from @mail.sonic.net (pm00 [199.4.118.100]) by sonic.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id PAA30327; Fri, 5 May 1995 15:54:07 -0700 Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 15:54:07 -0700 Message-Id: <199505052254.PAA30327@sonic.net> X-Sender: ann@mail.sonic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: www-talk@www10.w3.org From: ann@sonic.net (Ann Lynnworth) Subject: CGI environment vars for browser ID, etc. Cc: eshyjka@dc.isx.com Content-Length: 2338 To answer Elisabeth's question about identifying the browser -- A CGI program has access to a great number of environment variables which give you all sorts of information about what's happening at run time. This is not available to plain HTML; you need to have a CGI program. But if you do, here are some of the benefits: ' [CGI] <== The standard CGI variables ' CGI Version= The version of CGI spoken by the server ' Request Protocol= The server's info protocol (e.g. HTTP/1.0) ' Request Method= The method specified in the request (e.g., "GET") ' Executable Path= Physical pathname of the back-end (this program) ' Logical Path= Extra path info in logical space ' Physical Path= Extra path info in local physical space ' Query String= String following the "?" in the request URL ' Content Type= MIME content type of info supplied with request ' Content Length= Length, bytes, of info supplied with request ' Server Software= Version/revision of the info (HTTP) server ' Server Name= Server's network hostname (or alias from config) ' Server Port= Server's network port number ' Server Admin= E-Mail address of server's admin. (config) ' Referer= URL of referring document (HTTP/1.0 draft 12/94) ' From= E-Mail of client user (HTTP/1.0 draft 12/94) ' Remote Host= Remote client's network hostname ' Remote Address= Remote client's network address ' Authenticated Username=Username if present in request ' Authenticated Password=Password if present in request ' Authentication Method=Method used for authentication (e.g., "Basic") ' Authentication Realm=Name of realm for users/groups If you're developing on a Windows NT platform, you might check out http://website.ora.com for more information. O'Reilly's server makes it very easy to get at these facts. Hope this helps, -Ann ******************************************************* Ann Lynnworth ann@sonic.net Infobahn Construction Seminar -- http://www.sonic.net/~ann/htmlsmnr.html TimeWarp Records -- http://www.vintage.com/mall/record On-Line Classifieds -- http://www.sonic.net/~ann/forsale Software Development Since 1983: Paradox, C, Delphi, CGI.... ******************************************************* eturn-Path: sanders@austin.bsdi.com Return-Path: <sanders@austin.bsdi.com> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AB04093; Fri, 5 May 1995 19:03:06 +0500 Received: from austin.bsdi.com by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA12111; Fri, 5 May 1995 19:02:56 +0500 Received: from austin.bsdi.com (sanders#oE+ngj0Uyf1yvCzwQ90Eb4Vwbvk2ES75#@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by austin.bsdi.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA05798 for <www-talk@www10.w3.org>; Fri, 5 May 1995 18:02:50 -0500 Message-Id: <199505052302.SAA05798@austin.bsdi.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <www-talk@www10.w3.org> Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: Rupesh Kapoor's message of Fri, 05 May 1995 16:28:56 +0500. References: <Pine.BSD/.3.91.950505131450.4474B-100000@altair.shaktiweb.com> From: Tony Sanders <sanders@earth.com> Date: Fri, 05 May 1995 18:02:45 -0500 Sender: sanders@austin.bsdi.com Content-Length: 6249 > On Thu, 4 May 1995 www-talk@www10.w3.org wrote: > > I am new to this mailing list and am not sure if this > > has been discussed. But here it goes. > > Is it possible to have 2 different names resolve to > > the same server but point to two different home pages. ... > > If yes, how do I do that. We use DNS and I can setup CNAME aliases > > for my sun so that x.y.z and a.b.c both point to my sun platform. Nope -- CNAME won't do it. Rupesh Kapoor writes: > That's not how it works. You have to run two different httpd's (with > different root areas, of course). They would run on diff ports, say one > on 80 (default) and the other on 2000. URL for the first is ... > The port number has to be there. Am I missing a point? Yes, and even worse, you commited the sin of misinformation. <TITLE>multi-domain hosts (the shocking truth -- long)</TITLE> <P>I assume what you really want are multiple, parallel services that appear to be different machines but are really one machine -- and since I believe this is of general interest, here is that story. <P>The most common request for this is from people that want to setup parallel web servers (e.g., http://www.number1.com/ and http://www.number2.com/ on the same machine serving totally independant information). This information is aimed mainly at people using a un*x platform. <P>First, you <B>must</B> be able to configure multiple network interfaces on the machine with different IP addresses. Some (un*x) machines can do this with the <I><A HREF="http://www.bsdi.com/bsdi-man/?ifconfig(8)">ifconfig</A></I> command using the alias option, for example:<PRE> ifconfig XX# alias ##.##.##.##</PRE> <P>On other machines you can use spare SLIP or PPP interfaces as placeholders for the new IP address, but one way or another you <B>must</B> have multiple IP addresses on that machine or else you simply <B>cannot</B> do it (you cannot do it simply by messing with DNS). There is nothing special you need to do with DNS either, you just assign the new IP address to the name you want to use. The seperation totally depends on the IP addresses, the names really have nothing to do with (they are what the user sees and nothing more -- the machines really don't care much about them). <P>Ok, now for some technical bits, (<I>please note that some details will vary depending on the implementation of TCP/IP</I>). When an application <A HREF="http://www.bsdi.com/bsdi-man/?bind(2)">binds</A></I> to a <B>TCP</B> port it must specify (amongst other things) the <B>port</B> to which it will bind (e.g., gopher, ftp, http, except it uses the port number) and the address (which is often specified as <B>INADDR_ANY</B> which means that it will accept packets for all local destinations, that is, IP addresses on this machine). <P>This specification is done in a <B>struct sockaddr_in</B> which looks like: <PRE> struct sockaddr_in { u_char sin_len; u_char sin_family; u_short sin_port; struct in_addr sin_addr; char sin_zero[8]; }; </PRE> <P>And the C code to setup the socket goes something like this (this is just pseudo-code, error checking should be done, etc):<PRE> int socket_fd; int on = 1; struct sockaddr_in sa_in; socket_fd = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, IPPROTO_TCP); (void) setsockopt(socket_fd, SOL_SOCKET, SO_REUSEADDR, (char *)&on, sizeof on); /* ... */ /* fill in data for bind */ bzero((char *) &sa_in, sizeof sa_in); sa_in.sin_family = AF_INET; sa_in.sin_port = 80; /* shouldn't be hardcoded */ /* At this point, most applications have something like the following: * sa_in.sin_addr.s_addr = INADDR_ANY; * and you need to change it to something like: */ { /* should use gethostbyname() in real code and get * the argument from the command line */ long int hostaddr1 = inet_addr("1.2.3.4"); sa_in.sin_addr.s_addr = hostaddr1; /* change binding here */ } bind(socket_fd, (struct sockaddr *)&sa_in, sizeof sa_in); </PRE> <P>The reason I've given you the technical details above is that most existing internet applications do not provide any way to specify the host to use in the <B>s_addr</B> field, they just hardcode the <B>INADDR_ANY</B> and that does what most people want. So in most case you will have to go in and modify the code (in the best possible case you would add an option that allows you to specify the binding on the command line or in a configuration file, if not, I think many people could hardcode in a new binding given the information above). If that fails, call your local system admin (but please don't call me). <P>One really neat thing you can do with this is, once you get it all working you can run a "default" server bound to <B>INADDR_ANY</B> (remember, that is the default address and will accept packets for any address not bound to some other server) and have it return a "sorry, temporarily out of service" message to the client <B>and</B> email the local webmaster that something has gone wrong! (<I>help me</I>) <P>Since I am, among other things, the author of the <A HREF="http://www.bsdi.com/server/doc/plexus.html">Plexus</A> HTTP server (it's public domain code so don't worry, this isn't a plug for money) I now must give a shameless little plug for my server, which supports this feature of binding to specific addresses in the standard distribution. And all you have to do (after you get it installed of course) is to use the <TT>-h</TT> flag to specify which address to bind to:<PRE> plexus -h austin.bsdi.com</PRE> <P>That's it! Now you have a server bound to the IP address for austin.bsdi.com on port 80. You could then run another "default" server (as mentioned above) just by running <I>plexus</I> without the <TT>-h</TT> flag, and it will bind to <B>INADDR_ANY</B> (tada). In addition to the above quick hack, you could make the server a little bit smarter and a single server could service multiple IP addrs -- I leave this as an exercise for the reader. If you have further questions please contact your local guru and not me. eturn-Path: rst@ai.mit.edu Return-Path: <rst@ai.mit.edu> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA05941; Fri, 5 May 1995 19:22:39 +0500 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA12258; Fri, 5 May 1995 19:22:36 +0500 Received: from volterra (volterra.ai.mit.edu) by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for www-talk@www10.w3.org id AA02185; Fri, 5 May 95 19:22:32 EDT From: rst@ai.mit.edu (Robert S. Thau) Received: by volterra (4.1/AI-4.10) id AA02251; Fri, 5 May 95 19:22:30 EDT Date: Fri, 5 May 95 19:22:30 EDT Message-Id: <9505052322.AA02251@volterra> To: rupesh@altair.shaktiweb.com Cc: www-talk@www10.w3.org In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSD/.3.91.950505131450.4474B-100000@altair.shaktiweb.com> (message from Rupesh Kapoor on Fri, 5 May 1995 16:30:54 +0500) Subject: Re: your mail Content-Length: 1673 On Thu, 4 May 1995 Ramani Iyer wrote: > I am new to this mailing list and am not sure if this > has been discussed. But here it goes. > Is it possible to have 2 different names resolve to > the same server but point to two different home pages. > For example : x.y.z should point to page 1 in my sun and > address http://a.b.c should point to page 2 > in my sun. You can't do it with DNS. Here's one approach: From: Rupesh Kapoor <rupesh@altair.shaktiweb.com> That's not how it works. You have to run two different httpd's (with different root areas, of course). They would run on diff ports, say one on 80 (default) and the other on 2000. URL for the first is http://xyz.com/ and that for the second http://xyz.com:2000/ or http://abcd.com:2000/ Alternatively, if your computer has multiple network interfaces (or can be configured to pretend that it does), you can assign one IP address to abcd.com, assign another to xyz.com, and run a server which behaves differently depending on which IP address is used to contact it. The important thing is that the IP addresses must be distinct, since an HTTP client doesn't try to tell the server what it thinks the server's name is. The server you use has to be aware of this arrangement as well, of course. Patches are available for the NCSA server (and probably for CERN as well); Apache, an NCSA derivative, comes with this code integrated in to the main body (and we've even gotten around to documenting it). See http://www.hyperreal.com/apache/docs/virtual-host.html for details on how this works... rst eturn-Path: ptong@netcom.com Return-Path: <ptong@netcom.com> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AB10523; Fri, 5 May 1995 20:53:40 +0500 Received: from netcom22.netcom.com by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA12916; Fri, 5 May 1995 20:53:37 +0500 Received: by netcom22.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id RAA10527; Fri, 5 May 1995 17:52:46 -0700 Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 17:52:46 -0700 From: ptong@netcom.com (P.T. Ong) Message-Id: <199505060052.RAA10527@netcom22.netcom.com> To: rst@ai.mit.edu, www-talk@www10.w3.org Subject: Re: your mail Cc: ptong@netcom.com Content-Length: 1100 % From www-talk@www10.w3.org Fri May 5 17:02:51 1995 % Reply-To: rst@ai.mit.edu % % Alternatively, if your computer has multiple network interfaces (or % can be configured to pretend that it does), you can assign one IP How can you configure a machine to pretend it has more than one network interface? Do you know if there's a standard way to do this in UNIX? % address to abcd.com, assign another to xyz.com, and run a server which % behaves differently depending on which IP address is used to contact % it. The important thing is that the IP addresses must be distinct, % since an HTTP client doesn't try to tell the server what it thinks the % server's name is. % % The server you use has to be aware of this arrangement as well, of % course. Patches are available for the NCSA server (and probably for % CERN as well); Apache, an NCSA derivative, comes with this code % integrated in to the main body (and we've even gotten around to % documenting it). See % % http://www.hyperreal.com/apache/docs/virtual-host.html % % for details on how this works... % % rst % Thanks. pt eturn-Path: oes@stud.unit.no Return-Path: <oes@stud.unit.no> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA25640; Sat, 6 May 1995 09:10:48 +0500 Received: from karl.stud.unit.no by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA16518; Sat, 6 May 1995 09:10:46 +0500 Received: from signy14 by karl.stud.unit.no with SMTP id <AA21587> (5.65c/karl-1.00-beta-5 for <www-talk@www10.w3.org>); Sat, 6 May 1995 15:10:43 +0200 From: "\yvind S{ter" <oes@stud.unit.no> Received: by signy14 ; Sat, 6 May 1995 13:10:42 GMT Message-Id: <199505061310.AA02828@signy14> Subject: re: HTML 2.0 standard doc's To: www-talk@www10.w3.org Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 15:10:42 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199505061212.OAA25279@flipper.pvv.unit.no> from "www-talk@www10.w3.org" at May 6, 95 02:12:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 525 > I am training people to code with html coding. I want them to code to > html 2.0 standards - I cannot find the document that lists the standards > for html 2.0 coding - could you point me to that? > Thanks, > Sharon Cling You may tri one of these: http://www.yahoo.com/Computers/World_Wide_Web/HTML/ http://hopf.math.nwu.edu/html2.0/htmlspec281194_1.html http://www.ncsa.uiuc.edu/SDG/Software/Mosaic/Docs/fill-out-forms/overview.html http://www.w3.org/hypertext/WWW/MarkUp/MarkUp.html oes eturn-Path: martin@mrrl.lut.ac.uk Return-Path: <martin@mrrl.lut.ac.uk> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AC07613; Sat, 6 May 1995 11:12:51 +0500 Received: from gizmo.lut.ac.uk by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA17152; Sat, 6 May 1995 11:12:47 +0500 Received: from localhost (martin@localhost) by gizmo.lut.ac.uk (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA24601 for <www-talk@w3.org>; Sat, 6 May 1995 16:12:43 +0100 Message-Id: <199505061512.QAA24601@gizmo.lut.ac.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6 4/21/95 To: www-talk@w3.org X-Uri: <URL:http://www.mrrl.lut.ac.uk/~martin> Subject: User authentication Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 06 May 1995 16:12:42 +0100 From: Martin Hamilton <martin@mrrl.lut.ac.uk> Content-Length: 612 There's been a lot of grumbling about the ease of mail/news forgery via WWW browsers, but it would be trivial to add a simple user authentication mechanism based on say the POP (RFC 1725) or IMAP (RFC 1730) protocols Using the simple (cleartext) POP3 authentication, the entire authentication dialogue need only consist of the following ... +OK POP server starting user martin +OK Password required for martin. pass secret +OK martin has 3 message(s) (34153 octets). quit +OK Pop server says bye! Of course there are fancier scenarios using Kerberos, S/Key ... :-) Just a thought! Martin eturn-Path: frystyk@w3.org Return-Path: <frystyk@w3.org> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA25055; Sat, 6 May 1995 22:59:34 +0500 Received: from www20 (www20.w3.org) by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA20485; Sat, 6 May 1995 22:59:32 +0500 Received: by www20 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA20524; Sat, 6 May 1995 22:59:31 +0500 Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 22:59:31 +0500 From: frystyk@w3.org (Henrik Frystyk Nielsen) Message-Id: <9505070259.AA20524@www20> To: www-talk@www10.w3.org Reply-To: Henrik Frystyk Nielsen <frystyk@w3.org> X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 3128 > > > "well I'd really prefer mpeg over quicktime" so it'd set mpeg to 1.0 and > > > quicktime to 0.9, avi to 0.8, etc... this really could be quite a > > > powerful mechanism. > > > > Things brings up the interesting split: the q parameter is intended to > > express lossiness of presentation, not user preferences. Overloading it > > has some interesting implications (e.g. most people might prefer to use > > JPEG over GIF, but really it depends on how the image originated, since > > converting a GIF to a JPEG for transmission will make it worse, not better.) > > According to > <URL:http://www.w3.org/hypertext/WWW/Protocols/HTTP1.0/HTTP1.0-ID_38.html#HEADING112>: > > q > The quality factor chosen by the user agent (and configurable by the > user) that represents the desirability of that media type. In this > case, desirability is usually a measure of the clients ability to > faithfully represent the contents of that media type to the user. > The value is in the range [0,1], where the default value is 1. > > How does the browser determine "the clients ability to faithfully represent > the contents of that media type to the user"? The best the client could do > would be 0 or 1. I might have a much better WAV player than MPEG player, but > I'd much prefer to get MPEG streams given that I know they pack higher > quality per byte. At some level, the user should have control over this. Having the client setting the quality factors to either '0' or '1' depending on what it can find, and then have the users adjusting according to their personal preferences is in my opinion a perfectly good way of doing it. In the gray zone between '0' and '1' the quality factor acts pretty much like the accept language header: The user has to take part in assigning values. > In a general sense, overall "quality" shouldn't be mapped directly to > media types, I agree. The only thing that really maps to quality is > bandwidth in most cases - so an overall "Accept-Quality" header might be > needed (implemented as a slider replacing the throbbing N at the top of > my browser :) that the server uses to determine what to send. The HTTP specification is not very clear when it comes to content-negotiation. There are several reasons for this: First of all because most URLs maps directly to a specific file type which leaves little room for content-negotiation (because the document only exists in one format); Second because nobody has been able to come up with a good set of parameters for network performance that can be used to select the desired media type (BTW: this is not only a problem for HTTP). Obviously, size is a reasonable parameter, but I don't think the only one required in a flexible algorithm. So maybe we simply have no choice but to let the quality factor be a mapping of user preferences! -- cheers -- Henrik Frystyk frystyk@W3.org World-Wide Web Consortium, Tel + 1 617 258 8143 MIT/LCS, NE43-356 Fax + 1 617 258 8682 77 Massachusetts Avenue Cambridge MA 02154, USA eturn-Path: jcaron@pressimage.fr Return-Path: <jcaron@pressimage.fr> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA04420; Sun, 7 May 1995 01:59:25 +0500 Received: from ns.pressimage.fr by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA21465; Sun, 7 May 1995 01:59:19 +0500 Received: from [194.2.222.120] (jc.pressimage.fr [194.2.222.120]) by ns.pressimage.fr (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA26264 for <www-talk@mail.w3.org>; Sun, 7 May 1995 07:59:11 +0200 X-Sender: jc@mail.pressimage.fr Message-Id: <v01510100abd20ff47280@[194.2.222.120]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 07:58:59 +0200 To: www-talk@www10.w3.org From: jcaron@pressimage.fr (Jacques Caron) Subject: Re: your mail Content-Length: 3393 > On Thu, 4 May 1995 Ramani Iyer wrote: > > > I am new to this mailing list and am not sure if this > > has been discussed. But here it goes. > > Is it possible to have 2 different names resolve to > > the same server but point to two different home pages. > > For example : x.y.z should point to page 1 in my sun and > > address http://a.b.c should point to page 2 > > in my sun. > >You can't do it with DNS. Here's one approach: > > From: Rupesh Kapoor <rupesh@altair.shaktiweb.com> > > That's not how it works. You have to run two different httpd's (with > different root areas, of course). They would run on diff ports, say one > on 80 (default) and the other on 2000. URL for the first is > > http://xyz.com/ > > and that for the second > > http://xyz.com:2000/ > or http://abcd.com:2000/ > >Alternatively, if your computer has multiple network interfaces (or >can be configured to pretend that it does), you can assign one IP >address to abcd.com, assign another to xyz.com, and run a server which >behaves differently depending on which IP address is used to contact >it. The important thing is that the IP addresses must be distinct, >since an HTTP client doesn't try to tell the server what it thinks the >server's name is. > >The server you use has to be aware of this arrangement as well, of >course. Patches are available for the NCSA server (and probably for >CERN as well); Apache, an NCSA derivative, comes with this code >integrated in to the main body (and we've even gotten around to >documenting it). See > > http://www.hyperreal.com/apache/docs/virtual-host.html > >for details on how this works... > >rst Hey, this gets on my nerves. When will someone do something about it? It's so easy to add a f...ing "Host: " or "Full-URI: " header that would enable us to do that without such a hack. Multiple IPs per host _is_ a hack. It can only be done on a small number of OSes, and it is a real waste of IP addresses. I _thought_ we were running out of IP address space. Looks like you guys just want to use it still more quickly! I have to agree that the guy that came up with this was clever, as this works with the installed base, but such a small modification of the protocol would be _sooooo_ easy to implement in both clients and servers that I think that every single client and server existing would be upgraded in a matter of weeks, and that the installed base would in a few months be 80 to 90% converted. One would still need a "choose which home page you want" page for the case when the server does not know who was in fact selected, and that would work for everybody till he switches to a newer client. So, why, _why_, *why*, WHY? A single line! It's so easy! The worst is, it's been discussed a number of times, everytime everyone agrees and says, OK, that's a good idea, let's do it, and then nobody moves. What should I do? Send every web browser and server author a personal mail to ask him to do it? Hope this one is the good one :-) Jacques +-------------------------+------------------------+ |Jacques Caron | Pressimage Telematique | |jcaron@pressimage.fr | 5/7 rue Raspail | |Tel: +33 (1) 49 88 63 56 | 93108 Montreuil Cedex | |Fax: +33 (1) 49 88 63 64 | France | +-------------------------+------------------------+ eturn-Path: ptitz@dux.ru Return-Path: <ptitz@dux.ru> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AB24514; Sun, 7 May 1995 10:05:11 +0500 Received: from dux.ru (ns.dux.ru) by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA23299; Sun, 7 May 1995 10:05:08 +0500 Received: (from ptitz@localhost) by dux.ru (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA11884 for www-talk@www10.w3.org; Sun, 7 May 1995 18:04:21 +0400 From: Dmitry Mishin <ptitz@dux.ru> Message-Id: <199505071404.SAA11884@dux.ru> Organization: DUX Subject: Re: User authentication To: www-talk@www10.w3.org Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 18:04:20 +0400 (MSD) In-Reply-To: <199505061512.QAA24601@gizmo.lut.ac.uk> from "Martin Hamilton" at May 6, 95 11:23:48 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 888 Martin Hamilton <martin@mrrl.lut.ac.uk> wrote: > > There's been a lot of grumbling about the ease of mail/news forgery > via WWW browsers, but it would be trivial to add a simple user > authentication mechanism based on say the POP (RFC 1725) or IMAP (RFC > 1730) protocols > What for is to add a bad implementation of another (not strongly required) protocol into complex browser. Now we have a bad mailto implementation (required) and bad newsreader implementation (not strongly required). Doubtfully some more bad implementations are needed. For the one hand the browsers we see now are getting to grow into monsters. They take loads of resources (MS-Windows based for example). IMHO, much better is to have the browser made of modules or with posibility fork a module, mosts of them can be replaced with (or added) specialised and more convenient to the user's choice. D. eturn-Path: swepett@kajen.malmo.se Return-Path: <swepett@kajen.malmo.se> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA25191; Sun, 7 May 1995 10:33:29 +0500 Received: from kajen.malmo.se ([194.16.18.1]) by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA23469; Sun, 7 May 1995 10:33:17 +0500 Received: (from swepett@localhost) by kajen.malmo.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA24661; Sun, 7 May 1995 16:28:46 +0200 Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 16:28:44 +0100 From: Svante Pettersson <swepett@kajen.malmo.se> Subject: To: Svante Pettersson <swepett@kajen.malmo.se> Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9505071652.A24627-0100000@julia.kajen.malmo.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 380 test ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Svante Pettersson "The world isn't flat. Kajplats 305 It's actually +6 dBa at 5.7 kHz." swepett@kajen.malmo.se webmaster@kajen.malmo.se http://www.kajen.malmo.se/~swepett/ -FSCFRA 1994 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- eturn-Path: nazgul@utopia.com Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AB25886; Sun, 7 May 1995 10:57:39 +0500 Received: from utopia.com (utopia.wing.net) by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA23634; Sun, 7 May 1995 10:57:31 +0500 Received: from [204.57.39.6] by utopia.com (8.6.12/SONY-4.0MX) id KAA06422; Sun, 7 May 1995 10:55:45 -0400 Return-Path: <nazgul@utopia.com> X-Sender: nazgul@mailhost.utopia.com Message-Id: <v02110123abd28c318914@[204.57.39.6]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 10:57:32 -0400 To: www-html@www10.w3.org From: nazgul@utopia.com (Kee Hinckley) Subject: Re: Cc: www-talk@www10.w3.org Content-Length: 1794 >designing WWW sites. I have been asked to explore the possibilites of >deigning a WWW site that has an user fill-in form that the information is >then automatically stored in a searchable database. > >I would like to know what questions I should ask service providers before >we choose one. Any hints you experienced users could give would be greatly >appreciated. I assume you want the searchable database to be on the server? Most Web Site providers we have talked to are happy to let you have forms which mail you the results. However they are very hesitant about letting people write arbitrary scripts that run on their machines. Just to complicate things, even if they do let you write such scripts, they probably run their server with a user of 'none', which means that any files you have your scripts create will have to be writable by everyone on the machine - a not so pleasant situation. That said, it's not impossible. We have relationships with several providers that allow us to write scripts - but they don't let all of their customers do so. And the degree of security ranges from none to having to pass our scripts through their vetting process. I don't think you'll see the situation improve much until the server companies start providing servers that run chroot'd as a specified a user. Then you can have your own partition on the machine and the provider won't have as many concerns. (This topic may be better suited for www-talk, I've cc'd it there.) Kee Hinckley Utopia Inc. - Cyberspace Architects=81 617/721-6100 nazgul@utopia.com http://www.utopia.com/ I'm not sure which upsets me more: that people are so unwilling to accept responsibility for their own actions, or that they are so eager to regulate everyone else's. eturn-Path: agulbra@troll.no Return-Path: <agulbra@troll.no> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA26024; Sun, 7 May 1995 11:06:41 +0500 Received: from Norway.EU.net (nic.eunet.no) by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA23727; Sun, 7 May 1995 11:06:32 +0500 Received: by Norway.EU.net with UUCP id AA06939 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4/EUnet/NO for www10.w3.org!www-talk); Sun, 7 May 1995 17:05:54 +0200 Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 16:32:11 +0200 (MET DST) From: Arnt Gulbrandsen <agulbra@troll.no> To: Jacques Caron <jcaron@pressimage.fr> Cc: Multiple recipients of list <www-talk@www10.w3.org> Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <v01510100abd20ff47280@[194.2.222.120]> Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.3.91.950507161326.402C-100000@pentagram.troll.no> Return-Receipt-To: agulbra@troll.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1427 > Hey, this gets on my nerves. When will someone do something about it? It's so > easy to add a f...ing "Host: " or "Full-URI: " header that would enable us > to do that without such a hack. Multiple IPs per host _is_ a hack. It can > only be done on a small number of OSes, and it is a real waste of IP > addresses. I _thought_ we were running out of IP address space. Looks like > you guys just want to use it still more quickly! Not a great waste, no. The _great_ waste of IP addresses is the number of blocks being allocated, one block per organization. I work for a small company which has been allocated almost a hundred times as many addresses as we use; a fairly common situation and very wasteful. Compared to that waste, everything else is just surface noise. We're about to set up www.troll.no, when we have we'll occupy 257 IP addresses, one up from 256. And that's the worst case. If troll.no had 1024 IP addresses we'd would use 1025; 0.1% extra. When even the worst case is less than 0.25% waste, who cares? The internet draft draft-gulbrandsen-dns-rr-srvcs-00.txt may, with one change (an additional "actual port" data field in the RR), be used to solve this "problem". But it would require all the clients to change, every single one. I'd appreciate comments on the draft; should I put back in "actual port"? It was there in the very first version, but went away for lack of perceived use. --Arnt eturn-Path: martin@mrrl.lut.ac.uk Return-Path: <martin@mrrl.lut.ac.uk> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA28396; Sun, 7 May 1995 12:02:38 +0500 Received: from gizmo.lut.ac.uk by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA24088; Sun, 7 May 1995 12:02:33 +0500 Received: from localhost (martin@localhost) by gizmo.lut.ac.uk (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA19935 for <www-talk@w3.org>; Sun, 7 May 1995 17:02:30 +0100 Message-Id: <199505071602.RAA19935@gizmo.lut.ac.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6 4/21/95 To: www-talk@w3.org Subject: Re: User authentication X-Uri: <URL:http://www.mrrl.lut.ac.uk/~martin> In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 07 May 1995 10:12:36 +0500." <199505071404.SAA11884@dux.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 07 May 1995 17:02:30 +0100 From: Martin Hamilton <martin@mrrl.lut.ac.uk> Content-Length: 539 Dmitry Mishin writes: | Now we have a bad mailto implementation (required) and bad newsreader | implementation (not strongly required). Doubtfully some more bad | implementations are needed. Sure - but if you are going to implement (say) mailto support in your browser, ought you not to at least make a token(!) effort to find out whether the user is who they're claiming to be ? Plus, the scenario I outlined hardly adds virtually no new code to the browser. Is this more or less worthwhile than <blink> ... </blink> ? :-) Martin eturn-Path: andersg@ludd.luth.se Return-Path: <andersg@ludd.luth.se> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA01384; Sun, 7 May 1995 12:24:54 +0500 Received: from zed.ludd.luth.se by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA24171; Sun, 7 May 1995 12:24:52 +0500 Received: from zero.ludd.luth.se (zero.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.35]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id SAA28200 for <www-talk@www10.w3.org>; Sun, 7 May 1995 18:24:49 +0200 From: andersg@ludd.luth.se Received: (andersg@localhost) by zero.ludd.luth.se (8.6.11/8.6.11) id SAA10336 for www-talk@www10.w3.org; Sun, 7 May 1995 18:24:48 +0200 Message-Id: <199505071624.SAA10336@zero.ludd.luth.se> Subject: Show movies in Netscape? To: www-talk@www10.w3.org Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 18:24:46 +0200 (EET DST) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 325 Can anyone give me some hints or information about how I shall make a HTML-page wich plays a movie when you enter this side or when you press a button ? I would like to show quicktime and mpeg movies! My platform is UNIX sparc solaris2.4, and I'm using NCSA httpd1.3 web-server. /Anders Gunnare e-mail:andersg@ludd.luth.se eturn-Path: rich@kitty.oester.com Return-Path: <rich@kitty.oester.com> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA10341; Sun, 7 May 1995 15:00:16 +0500 Received: from kitty.oester.com by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA25145; Sun, 7 May 1995 15:00:12 +0500 Received: from kitty.oester.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kitty.oester.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id MAA12723 for <www-talk@www10.w3.org>; Sun, 7 May 1995 12:00:11 -0700 Message-Id: <199505071900.MAA12723@kitty.oester.com> From: "Gintaras Richard Gircys (GG148)" <rich@oester.com> X-Phone: 408 722 3682 X-Orgs: Oesterreich & Assc. Inc. X-Snail: 2014 Eureka Canyon Road, Corralitos, CA. 95076 To: www-talk@www10.w3.org Subject: multiple home pages/ips In-Reply-To: Message from Sun, 07 May 1995 11:36:26 +0500. <Pine.LNX.3.91.950507161326.402C-100000@pentagram.troll.no> Date: Sun, 07 May 1995 12:00:10 -0700 Sender: rich@kitty.oester.com Content-Length: 1788 > > Hey, this gets on my nerves. When will someone do something about it? It's so > > easy to add a f...ing "Host: " or "Full-URI: " header that would enable us i agree that this is a nervy thing, and i don't like the way it's currently done, but unless i am missing something, i don't see how adding ANY information to a documentt will fix this. > > to do that without such a hack. Multiple IPs per host _is_ a hack. It can > > only be done on a small number of OSes, and it is a real waste of IP yes, it's a hack, a a benefit of running a real os (where this ability is there exactly for this reason - hopefully a temporary solution until...) > The internet draft draft-gulbrandsen-dns-rr-srvcs-00.txt may, with one > change (an additional "actual port" data field in the RR), be used to > solve this "problem". But it would require all the clients to change, > every single one. > ... the above can be implemented. doing this by dns is the correct way (analogous to the correct use of MX records to do similar functional vis-a-vis email). > I'd appreciate comments on the draft; should I put back in "actual port"? > It was there in the very first version, but went away for lack of > perceived use. > if this change to dns is being considered, that's good enought for me - year ago you couldn't get any to even listen to such an idea. as for the current hack being clever - it ain't; ip alias games has been a useful unix admin tool for years - saying it's clever is like saying "ain't it clever to put a bandage on that cut" - it's obvious. as for the apache hint - unless something has changed, how to do this is not documented, and the actual routing manipulations will probably be somewhat unix vendor/setup specific; there's at least two ways this can be done. rich eturn-Path: srinivas@cs.iastate.edu Return-Path: <srinivas@cs.iastate.edu> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AB14305; Sun, 7 May 1995 15:52:09 +0500 Received: from cs.iastate.edu by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA25417; Sun, 7 May 1995 15:52:07 +0500 Received: from shazam.cs.iastate.edu (shazam.cs.iastate.edu [129.186.3.2]) by cs.iastate.edu (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA25397 for <www-talk@www10.w3.org>; Sun, 7 May 1995 14:52:05 -0500 From: Srivatsa Srinivasan <srinivas@cs.iastate.edu> Received: (srinivas@localhost) by shazam.cs.iastate.edu (8.6.10/8.6.9) id OAA20612 for www-talk@www10.w3.org; Sun, 7 May 1995 14:51:56 -0500 Message-Id: <199505071951.OAA20612@shazam.cs.iastate.edu> Subject: HTTP Content-length question... To: www-talk@www10.w3.org Date: Sun, 7 May 95 14:51:55 CDT X-Hpvue$Revision: 1.8 $ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Message/rfc822 X-Vue-Mime-Level: 4 Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Content-Length: 1174 Hello WWWorld, I have a HTTP protocol question. I have a simple HTTP client that requests an object from a HTTP server using the GET method. Now, the client is written such that it mandatorily needs the server to return the 'Content-length:' header in its response. The problem I am facing is, this header is returned for most kind of objects (image/gif, audio/au etc) but not for text/html. Is there any special form of the GET request that will force the server to return the size of the object (the 'Content-length:' header) irrespective of its MIME type ? Thanks for your help! Srivatsa Srinivasan -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= | Srivatsa Belur Srinivasan | | 211, Atanasoff Hall, 246,N. Hyland Avenue, #208 | | Iowa State University, Ames, IA 50014, USA | | Email : srinivas@iastate.edu Phone : (515) 292-5458 | | WWW : http://www.public.iastate.edu/~srinivas | =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= For A Deterministic Finite State Patrol On The Information Superhighway. eturn-Path: frystyk@w3.org Return-Path: <frystyk@w3.org> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA17794; Sun, 7 May 1995 16:49:39 +0500 Received: from www20 (www20.w3.org) by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA25758; Sun, 7 May 1995 16:49:38 +0500 Received: by www20 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA22106; Sun, 7 May 1995 16:49:37 +0500 Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 16:49:37 +0500 From: frystyk@w3.org (Henrik Frystyk Nielsen) Message-Id: <9505072049.AA22106@www20> To: www-talk@www10.w3.org, srinivas@cs.iastate.edu Subject: Re: HTTP Content-length question... Reply-To: Henrik Frystyk Nielsen <frystyk@w3.org> X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 1140 > I have a simple HTTP client that requests an object from a HTTP server using > the GET method. Now, the client is written such that it mandatorily needs the > server to return the 'Content-length:' header in its response. > > The problem I am facing is, this header is returned for most kind of objects > (image/gif, audio/au etc) but not for text/html. Is there any special form > of the GET request that will force the server to return the size of the object > (the 'Content-length:' header) irrespective of its MIME type ? If this is the case then it is a server bug! The Content-Length header should be sent whenever possible in a full response, and it should certainly not have anything to do with the media type in which the object is rendered. I can imagine that the problems can be due to server side includes in the documents or dynamic documents generated by scripts. -- cheers -- Henrik Frystyk frystyk@W3.org World-Wide Web Consortium, Tel + 1 617 258 8143 MIT/LCS, NE43-356 Fax + 1 617 258 8682 77 Massachusetts Avenue Cambridge MA 02154, USA eturn-Path: frystyk@w3.org Return-Path: <frystyk@w3.org> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA18927; Sun, 7 May 1995 17:00:46 +0500 Received: from www20 (www20.w3.org) by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA25851; Sun, 7 May 1995 17:00:41 +0500 Received: by www20 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA22163; Sun, 7 May 1995 17:00:40 +0500 Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 17:00:40 +0500 From: frystyk@w3.org (Henrik Frystyk Nielsen) Message-Id: <9505072100.AA22163@www20> To: www-talk@www10.w3.org Reply-To: Henrik Frystyk Nielsen <frystyk@w3.org> X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 1133 > Could anyone describe the pros and cons of various systems (operating > system, hardware/software, connections, etc.) for setting up a Web Server > for home or office. > > Is a mac better than windows NT or Sparcstation? For the office we have > direct access to the internet and we have one Sparcstation 20 and one Sparc > 5. We may or may not be able to use those for internet apps. Should be > purchase another Sparc or buy a mac...windows NT? Please refer such questions to either the news lists or to the mailing lists that concern server administration. Only by keeping down the level of unrelated questions, comments, etc. can we keep a reasonable forum for discussions. For information regarding mail addresses and mailing lists please take a look at the page http://www.w3.org/hypertext/WWW/Mailing/Mail/ This page will give you the information needed. -- cheers -- Henrik Frystyk frystyk@W3.org World-Wide Web Consortium, Tel + 1 617 258 8143 MIT/LCS, NE43-356 Fax + 1 617 258 8682 77 Massachusetts Avenue Cambridge MA 02154, USA eturn-Path: akosut@nueva.pvt.k12.ca.us Return-Path: <akosut@nueva.pvt.k12.ca.us> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA21620; Sun, 7 May 1995 17:20:54 +0500 Received: from mail.barrnet.net by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA26030; Sun, 7 May 1995 17:20:52 +0500 Received: from ace.nueva.pvt.k12.ca.us (ace.nueva.pvt.k12.ca.us [198.31.42.1]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with SMTP id OAA02852; Sun, 7 May 1995 14:18:06 -0700 Received: by ace.nueva.pvt.k12.ca.us (1.38.193.5/15.5+ECS 3.3+HPL1.1) id AA05103; Sun, 7 May 1995 14:20:49 -0700 Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 14:20:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Alexei Kosut <akosut@nueva.pvt.k12.ca.us> To: Srivatsa Srinivasan <srinivas@cs.iastate.edu> Cc: Multiple recipients of list <www-talk@www10.w3.org> Subject: Re: HTTP Content-length question... In-Reply-To: <199505071951.OAA20612@shazam.cs.iastate.edu> Message-Id: <Pine.HPP.3.91.950507141858.5053A-100000@ace.nueva.pvt.k12.ca.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1251 On Sun, 7 May 1995, Srivatsa Srinivasan wrote: > The problem I am facing is, this header is returned for most kind of objects > (image/gif, audio/au etc) but not for text/html. Is there any special form > of the GET request that will force the server to return the size of the object > (the 'Content-length:' header) irrespective of its MIME type ? The most recent HTTP 1.0 draft I could find states: Although it is not required, applications are strongly encouraged to use this field to indicate the size of the Entity-Body to be transferred, regardless of the media type of the entity. The first five words here are the important ones... the server doesn't have to include Content-Length, and sometimes it doesn't. It's certainly nice, but you can't assume that this header will exist when writing an HTTP client. Because it won't always. But it is odd that your server returns the header for images, but not text... sounds like a bug. -- Alexei Kosut Live, Londo and Prosper: /\/\/\\____-_____-- __.__.. akosut@nueva.pvt.k12.ca.us |-|-----|:|:|:: ..| |...| ||=/ \ Lefler on IRC |-|-----======____| |---| |-=\__/ <URL:http://www.nueva.pvt.k12.ca.us/~akosut/> \/\/\/ - -- eturn-Path: frystyk@w3.org Return-Path: <frystyk@w3.org> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA02835; Sun, 7 May 1995 19:24:51 +0500 Received: from www20 (www20.w3.org) by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA26782; Sun, 7 May 1995 19:24:50 +0500 Received: by www20 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA22825; Sun, 7 May 1995 19:24:49 +0500 Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 19:24:49 +0500 From: frystyk@w3.org (Henrik Frystyk Nielsen) Message-Id: <9505072324.AA22825@www20> To: www-talk@www10.w3.org Reply-To: Henrik Frystyk Nielsen <frystyk@w3.org> X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 576 > It took more than a year for FORMS to make it into any spec, in fact > they still are not in any official spec, so it's no suprise that > the Refresh header isn't in the HTTP spec yet. The refresh header is planned for HTTP/1.1 - actually, as far as I remember, it was in one of the drafts but was taken out again? -- cheers -- Henrik Frystyk frystyk@W3.org World-Wide Web Consortium, Tel + 1 617 258 8143 MIT/LCS, NE43-356 Fax + 1 617 258 8682 77 Massachusetts Avenue Cambridge MA 02154, USA eturn-Path: cwerner@hsdemo.merit.edu Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AB16879; Sun, 7 May 1995 22:13:33 +0500 Received: from hostserver.merit.edu by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA27892; Sun, 7 May 1995 22:13:32 +0500 Return-Path: <cwerner@hsdemo.merit.edu> Received: from [198.111.2.19] by hostserver.merit.edu (8.6.12/hostsrvr-1.1) id WAA19195; Sun, 7 May 1995 22:13:27 -0400 Message-Id: <199505080213.WAA19195@hostserver.merit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 22:18:58 -0500 To: www-talk@www10.w3.org From: cwerner@hsdemo.merit.edu (Christopher L. Werner) Subject: Modular Browsers (was:User authentication) Content-Length: 1334 Dmitry Mishin writes: >For the one hand the browsers we see now are getting to grow into >monsters. They take loads of resources (MS-Windows based for example). >IMHO, much better is to have the browser made of modules or with posibility >fork a module, mosts of them can be replaced with (or added) specialised >and more convenient to the user's choice. Gee, sounds like Sun marketing is on the right track. Modular browsers, what a concept! So we all wait for WebBrowser to be ported to Windows? Hot Java here we come... Personally, I find the feature creep is bring us ever so close to SGML that we should have jumped on the DoD bandwagon years ago. Better authentication will only work if the encryption methods are available internationally and legislation like the new California key-server laws don't drive the price of registration to a magnetude greater than the application cost ($30). That they require more overhead is only a side effect. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Opinions expressed are my own and not those of Robert Bosch Corp. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Christopher L. Werner | Robert Bosch Corporation System Engineer | 38000 Hills Tech Dr. (810)553-1389 | Farmington Hills, MI 48331-3417 eturn-Path: mcclurea@nag.cs.colorado.edu Return-Path: <mcclurea@nag.cs.colorado.edu> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA18944; Sun, 7 May 1995 22:43:40 +0500 Received: from nag.cs.colorado.edu by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA28178; Sun, 7 May 1995 22:43:38 +0500 Received: (from mcclurea@localhost) by nag.cs.colorado.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) id UAA19294; Sun, 7 May 1995 20:43:29 -0600 From: "Adam T. McClure" <mcclurea@nag.cs.colorado.edu> Message-Id: <199505080243.UAA19294@nag.cs.colorado.edu> Subject: Re: Modular Browsers (was:User authentication) To: cwerner@hsdemo.merit.edu Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 20:43:29 -0600 (MDT) Cc: www-talk@www10.w3.org In-Reply-To: <199505080213.WAA19195@hostserver.merit.edu> from "Christopher L. Werner" at May 7, 95 10:22:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 849 Christopher L. Werner > > >For the one hand the browsers we see now are getting to grow into > >monsters. They take loads of resources (MS-Windows based for example). > >IMHO, much better is to have the browser made of modules or with posibility > >fork a module, mosts of them can be replaced with (or added) specialised > >and more convenient to the user's choice. > Yeah, how bout an OpenDoc browser Netscape? Is that a no-brainer or a novel concept? -- _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Adam T. McClure Integrated Teaching & Learning project mcclurea@colorado.edu University of Colorado-Boulder <a href="http://itldemo.colorado.edu/rootitl.html></a> You know what I like about standards? There's so many to choose from. _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ eturn-Path: sunok@shiva.hsr.re.kr Return-Path: <sunok@shiva.hsr.re.kr> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AD20938; Sun, 7 May 1995 23:11:17 +0500 Received: from garam.kreonet.re.kr by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA28459; Sun, 7 May 1995 23:11:09 +0500 Received: from heis1.hsr.re.kr (heis1.hsr.re.kr [134.75.214.2]) by garam.kreonet.re.kr (8.6.9H1/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA10665 for <www-talk@www10.w3.org>; Mon, 8 May 1995 12:13:33 +0900 From: sunok@shiva.hsr.re.kr Received: from shiva.hsr.re.kr (shiva.hsr.re.kr [134.75.214.124]) by heis1.hsr.re.kr (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA04722 for <www-talk@www10.w3.org>; Mon, 8 May 1995 12:13:02 +0900 Received: from (angel.hsr.re.kr [134.75.214.138]) by shiva.hsr.re.kr (8.6.10H1/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA05378 for <www-talk@www10.w3.org>; Thu, 4 May 1995 10:53:28 +0900 Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 10:53:28 +0900 Message-Id: <199505040153.KAA05378@shiva.hsr.re.kr> To: www-talk@www10.w3.org Subject: help! HTTP method trying X-Mailer: AIR Mail 3.X (SPRY, Inc.) Content-Length: 652 It is the first try for me to ask a question. I am studying HTTP now. after I logined by "telnet 'hostname' 80 ", I try to PUT, GET, POST methods test. for example, I did like "GET http://shiva.hsr.re.kr/~~/file.html HTTP/1.0". but at that time, I received 404 error message. I became to know that the server is the NCSA/1.3. I want to the response from the server that I write. How can I do at this time? if you know, reply to me. the faster, the better. regards, Sunny. ps::sorry for my clumsy english. ;) ============================ CHANG SUN OK sunok@shiva.hsr.re.kr Tel. 398-4732 ============================ eturn-Path: bruno@www10.w3.org Return-Path: <bruno@www10.w3.org> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AB00378; Mon, 8 May 1995 00:52:37 +0500 Received: from www19 (www19.w3.org) by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA29338; Mon, 8 May 1995 00:52:35 +0500 Received: by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA00374; Mon, 8 May 1995 00:52:34 +0500 Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 00:52:34 +0500 Message-Id: <9505080452.AA00374@www19> To: www-talk@www10.w3.org, sscling@ingr.com Subject: Re: HTML 2.0 DOCUMENT / specifications Reply-To: BFG@w3.org From: bfg@w3.org X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 661 Sharon Cling wrote: > I am training people to code with html coding. I want them to code to > html 2.0 standards - I cannot find the document that lists the standards > for html 2.0 coding - could you point me to that? http://www.w3.org/hypertext/WWW/MarkUp/MarkUp.html lets you access the latest specifications as of May 6, 1995 : http://www.w3.org/hypertext/WWW/MarkUp/html-spec/html-spec_toc.html Bruno Girschweiler B F G ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- email : bfg@w3.org 76373.3506@compuserve.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- eturn-Path: F.O.Estensen@newcastle.ac.uk Return-Path: <F.O.Estensen@newcastle.ac.uk> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA20590; Mon, 8 May 1995 09:11:23 +0500 Received: from cheviot.ncl.ac.uk by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA03094; Mon, 8 May 1995 09:11:11 +0500 Received: from burnmoor.ncl.ac.uk by cheviot.ncl.ac.uk id <OAA24839@cheviot.ncl.ac.uk> (8.6.10/ for ncl.ac.uk) with SMTP; Mon, 8 May 1995 14:11:03 +0100 Received: from eata.ncl.ac.uk (eata.ncl.ac.uk [128.240.2.18]) by burnmoor.ncl.ac.uk (8.6.12/8.6.10-cf revision 2 for Solaris 2.x) with ESMTP id OAA00703; Mon, 8 May 1995 14:11:03 +0100 Received: (n314974@localhost) by eata.ncl.ac.uk (8.6.11/8.6.10-cf revision 1 for SunOS 4.1.x) id OAA11972; Mon, 8 May 1995 14:11:01 +0100 Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 14:11:01 +0100 (BST) From: Frank Olav Estensen <F.O.Estensen@newcastle.ac.uk> To: www-talk@www10.w3.org Subject: File names Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91-941213.950508140848.11828A-100000@eata.ncl.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 525 How can I find the file name of a document with the URL: http://foo.co.uk/ Is there a methode to get the filename, or do I just have to assume index.html? Mr Frank Olav Estensen Student, Computing Science part III, University of Newcastle WWW : http://www.newcasle.ac.uk/~n314974 http://www.nordnett.no/~estensen E-mail: Snail-mail: F.O.Estensen@newcastle.ac.uk 105 Stratford Road F.O.Estensen@nordnett.no Heaton Phone: Newcastle upon Tyne +44 91 224 2355 NE6 5AS +47 75 56 09 48 England eturn-Path: jimg@dcz.gso.uri.edu Return-Path: <jimg@dcz.gso.uri.edu> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA27418; Mon, 8 May 1995 09:58:45 +0500 Received: from gsosun1 (gsosun1.gso.uri.edu) by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA03678; Mon, 8 May 1995 09:58:42 +0500 Received: from dcz.gso.uri.EDU by gsosun1 (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19707; Mon, 8 May 95 09:56:06 EDT Received: by dcz.gso.uri.EDU (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09944; Mon, 8 May 95 09:58:39 EDT Date: Mon, 8 May 95 09:58:39 EDT From: jimg@dcz.gso.uri.edu (James Gallagher) Message-Id: <9505081358.AA09944@dcz.gso.uri.EDU> To: www-talk@www10.w3.org Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSD/.3.91.950505131450.4474B-100000@altair.shaktiweb.com> References: <Pine.BSD/.3.91.950505131450.4474B-100000@altair.shaktiweb.com> Content-Length: 827 >>Rupesh Kapoor <rupesh@altair.shaktiweb.com> writes: > On Thu, 4 May 1995 www-talk@www10.w3.org wrote: >> I am new to this mailing list and am not sure if this has been >> discussed. But here it goes. Is it possible to have 2 different names >> resolve to the same server but point to two different home pages. For ... >> >> - Ramani Iyer >> > That's not how it works. You have to run two different httpd's (with ... > -- Rupesh But check out http://www.thesphere.com/~dlp/TwoServers/ for some more ideas. James Gallagher ---------------------------------------------------------- The University of Rhode Island | email: jimg@dcz.gso.uri.edu South Ferry Road | Phone: 401.792.6939 Narragansett, RI 02882 | FAX: 401.792.6728 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- eturn-Path: DANTONIO@process.com Return-Path: <DANTONIO@process.com> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA27734; Mon, 8 May 1995 10:01:15 +0500 Received: from sirius.process.com by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA03719; Mon, 8 May 1995 10:01:05 +0500 Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 10:01 -0400 From: DANTONIO@process.com (Momentary Language, Sexual Situations) Message-Id: <009900B318A87A40.06CA@PROCESS.COM> To: www-talk@www10.w3.org Subject: RE: FW: Pros and Cons of various OSs for WWW Servers... X-Vms-To: smtp%"www-talk@www10.w3.org" Content-Length: 707 > From: staffan@ep.se (Staffan Berger, ElektroPost) >>cbrenton@digprod.com wrote: >>If you have a server that is >>expecting heavy traffic however (50,000+ hits per day) there's no >>substitution for a UNIX platform. >And what about Microsoft? They are running their WWW server under Windows >NT and I'm sure that they have more than 50 000 hits per day. We have >around 8000 and still have capacity for ten times more on our Windows NT >server. Our server WWW server for Windows NT (Purveyor) routinely took 250,000 hits in a 24 hour period (measured during finalt testing right before release) so Unix certainly isn't the only choice. DDA P.S. for more info on Purveyor, check out www.process.com eturn-Path: rst@ai.mit.edu Return-Path: <rst@ai.mit.edu> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA00419; Mon, 8 May 1995 10:27:25 +0500 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA04044; Mon, 8 May 1995 10:27:21 +0500 Received: from volterra (volterra.ai.mit.edu) by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for www-talk@www10.w3.org id AA02166; Mon, 8 May 95 10:27:19 EDT From: rst@ai.mit.edu (Robert S. Thau) Received: by volterra (4.1/AI-4.10) id AA02848; Mon, 8 May 95 10:27:17 EDT Date: Mon, 8 May 95 10:27:17 EDT Message-Id: <9505081427.AA02848@volterra> To: srinivas@cs.iastate.edu Cc: www-talk@www10.w3.org In-Reply-To: <199505071951.OAA20612@shazam.cs.iastate.edu> (message from Srivatsa Srinivasan on Sun, 7 May 1995 15:58:18 +0500) Subject: Re: HTTP Content-length question... Content-Length: 1308 From: Srivatsa Srinivasan <srinivas@cs.iastate.edu> Hello WWWorld, I have a HTTP protocol question. I have a simple HTTP client that requests an object from a HTTP server using the GET method. Now, the client is written such that it mandatorily needs the server to return the 'Content-length:' header in its response. The problem I am facing is, this header is returned for most kind of objects (image/gif, audio/au etc) but not for text/html. Is there any special form of the GET request that will force the server to return the size of the object (the 'Content-length:' header) irrespective of its MIME type ? As some people have mentioned, the answer is no --- the server doesn't know the content-length of dynamically generated objects (i.e., those resulting from processing of server-side includes or invocation of a CGI script), so it *can't* report content-length for those items. If the server is NCSA-type, and the webmaster has declared all *.html files to be server-side-included, the effect will be as you report --- no HTML files will have content-length reported. (In principle, the server could do a prepass over the file to see if any inclusion directives are present, and report content-length if there aren't any; in practice, it doesn't). rst eturn-Path: klute@heike.nads.de Return-Path: <klute@heike.nads.de> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA02508; Mon, 8 May 1995 10:47:13 +0500 Received: from LCS.MIT.EDU (mintaka.lcs.mit.edu) by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA04234; Mon, 8 May 1995 10:47:05 +0500 Received: from heike.nads.de by MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU id aa21538; 8 May 95 10:46 EDT Received: from heike (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by heike.nads.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA09552; Mon, 8 May 1995 16:36:01 +0200 Message-Id: <199505081436.QAA09552@heike.nads.de> To: F.O.Estensen@newcastle.ac.uk Cc: Multiple recipients of list <www-talk@www10.w3.org>, klute@heike.nads.de Subject: Re: File names Reply-To: Rainer Klute <klute@nads.de> Organization: NADS GmbH, Germany Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 08 May 1995 09:43:18 +0500. <Pine.SUN.3.91-941213.950508140848.11828A-100000@eata.ncl.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 08 May 1995 16:36:01 +0200 From: Rainer Klute <klute@nads.de> Content-Length: 406 >How can I find the file name of a document with the URL: > >http://foo.co.uk/ You can't. Not shouldn't you. And perhaps it is not even a file. Best regards Rainer Klute Dipl.-Inform. Rainer Klute NADS - Advertising on nets NADS GmbH Emil-Figge-Str. 80 Tel.: +49 231 9742570 D-44227 Dortmund Fax: +49 231 9742571 <http://www.nads.de/~klute/> eturn-Path: dmk@allegra.att.com Return-Path: <dmk@allegra.att.com> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA02783; Mon, 8 May 1995 10:51:04 +0500 Received: from research.att.com by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA04274; Mon, 8 May 1995 10:50:46 +0500 Message-Id: <9505081450.AA04274@www10.w3.org> Received: by research.att.com; Mon May 8 09:56 EDT 1995 Received: from aleatory.tempo.att.com by allegra.tempo.att.com; id AA20087; Mon, 8 May 95 09:56:39 EDT Date: Mon, 8 May 95 09:56:31 EDT From: dmk@allegra.att.com (Dave Kristol) To: jcaron@pressimage.fr Subject: Re: your mail Cc: www-talk@www10.w3.org Content-Length: 2499 jcaron@pressimage.fr (Jacques Caron) said: > Hey, this gets on my nerves. When will someone do something about it? It's so > easy to add a f...ing "Host: " or "Full-URI: " header that would enable us > to do that without such a hack. Multiple IPs per host _is_ a hack. It can > only be done on a small number of OSes, and it is a real waste of IP > addresses. I _thought_ we were running out of IP address space. Looks like > you guys just want to use it still more quickly! > > I have to agree that the guy that came up with this was clever, as this > works with the installed base, but such a small modification of the > protocol would be _sooooo_ easy to implement in both clients and servers > that I think that every single client and server existing would be upgraded > in a matter of weeks, and that the installed base would in a few months be > 80 to 90% converted. > > One would still need a "choose which home page you want" page for the case > when the server does not know who was in fact selected, and that would work > for everybody till he switches to a newer client. > > So, why, _why_, *why*, WHY? A single line! It's so easy! > > The worst is, it's been discussed a number of times, everytime everyone > agrees and says, OK, that's a good idea, let's do it, and then nobody > moves. What should I do? Send every web browser and server author a > personal mail to ask him to do it? Yes, it has been discussed, and it is a good idea. The problem is deployment. Suppose you're running a server for companies X and Y. The server gets a request via an old client program, and there's no Host: or Full-URI: header. What should the server do? Here are some possibilities, all bad: 1) Always return the page for company X [Y]. Obviously this surprises the customers of company Y [X]. 2) Return a page that says "Follow this link to company X and this link to company Y." But company X may not like to be mentioned in the same sentence as company Y. 3) Return an error. I suppose one approach is to require conformance by browsers by date X. Servers are not an issue -- a server only cares if it wants to offer a service that depends on the new headers, and it might plan to do so, say, at X plus six months. There's still the issue of how to deal with old browsers. (Not everyone can or will get a fresh, shiny new browser every couple of months.) A server could deny them access, but that's not very friendly. Dave Kristol eturn-Path: jared@math.hmc.edu Return-Path: <jared@math.hmc.edu> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA17510; Mon, 8 May 1995 12:49:42 +0500 Received: from aslan.math.hmc.edu by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA05503; Mon, 8 May 1995 12:49:38 +0500 Received: (from jared@localhost) by aslan.math.hmc.edu (8.6.8.1/8.6.7) id JAA03728; Mon, 8 May 1995 09:49:36 -0700 Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 09:49:36 -0700 Message-Id: <199505081649.JAA03728@aslan.math.hmc.edu> From: Jared Rhine <Jared_Rhine@hmc.edu> To: rst@ai.mit.edu Cc: Multiple recipients of list <www-talk@www10.w3.org> Subject: Content-lengths of dynamic objects References: <9505081427.AA02848@volterra> X-Attribution: JRhine X-Uri: <URL:http://www.hmc.edu/~jared/home> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1613 [Citation date: Mon, 8 May 1995 10:56:06 +0500] RST == Robert S Thau <rst@ai.mit.edu> RST> [...] The server doesn't know the content-length of dynamically RST> generated objects (i.e., those resulting from processing of RST> server-side includes or invocation of a CGI script), so it *can't* RST> report content-length for those items. I'd like to pick a minor nit here; while your analysis of Srivatsa's problem is likely correct (server-side includes turned on for html files), I would point out that the phrase "dynamic object" applies to more than just includes and CGI scripts. Reasonable implementations of dynamic objects should not have this problem. My web is 100% dynamic, but always (I hope) reports correct content-lengths (as well as Title and Links, as well); it is simply an implementation issue. For the curious, I've done this by having all objects implement two standard methods: 'compute_lastmod' and 'render'. When I want to render an object, I first instantiate the object, and invoke 'compute_lastmod' on it. I compare the return value with the timestamp of an on-disk copy of the last rendering. If they are the same, I simply serve the file off disk; if not, I invoke method 'render', take the output of that and dump it in the disk file, touch the file appropriately, and then have the server serve the file off disk. Dynamic objects with local render caching, with the added bonus of correct Content-Lengths. -- Jared_Rhine@hmc.edu / HMC / <URL:http://www.hmc.edu/~jared/home> "A hundred thousand lemmings can't be wrong." -- attributed to Larry Sheldon, Jr. eturn-Path: TROTH@ua1vm.ua.edu Return-Path: <TROTH@ua1vm.ua.edu> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA01870; Mon, 8 May 1995 14:41:30 +0500 Received: from UA1VM.UA.EDU by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA06756; Mon, 8 May 1995 14:39:17 +0500 Message-Id: <9505081839.AA06756@www10.w3.org> Received: from UA1VM.UA.EDU by UA1VM.UA.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 6087; Mon, 08 May 95 13:39:27 CDT Received: from UA1VM.UA.EDU (NJE origin TROTH@UA1VM) by UA1VM.UA.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 4636; Mon, 8 May 1995 13:39:27 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mail-User-Agent: MAILBOOK/90.01.01 Date: Mon, 08 May 95 13:38:58 CDT From: Rick Troth <TROTH@ua1vm.ua.edu> Subject: Re: your mail To: Multiple recipients of list <www-talk@www10.w3.org> In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 8 May 1995 11:27:56 +0500 from <dmk@allegra.att.com> Content-Length: 958 >Here are some possibilities, all bad: >1) Always return the page for company X [Y]. Obviously this surprises >the customers of company Y [X]. >2) Return a page that says "Follow this link to company X and this link >to company Y." But company X may not like to be mentioned in the same >sentence as company Y. >3) Return an error. Dave illustrates the problem(s) pretty well. I don't understand why we're so hung up on http://X.mythical.host.com/ http://Y.mythical.host.com/ Why can't we go directly to "non home" or sub-pages? Why can't we do things like this: http://service.provider.net/home_page_X http://service.provider.net/home_page_Y Perhaps I've forgotten why, if the original poster indicated. Ramani? What was the problem with this approach? -- Rick Troth <troth@ua1vm.ua.edu>, Houston, Texas, USA http://ua1vm.ua.edu/~troth/ eturn-Path: rupesh@altair.shaktiweb.com Return-Path: <rupesh@altair.shaktiweb.com> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA04699; Mon, 8 May 1995 15:18:33 +0500 Received: from altair.shaktiweb.com by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA07056; Mon, 8 May 1995 15:16:19 +0500 Received: (from rupesh@localhost) by altair.shaktiweb.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA02360; Mon, 8 May 1995 12:15:20 -0700 Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 12:15:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Rupesh Kapoor <rupesh@altair.shaktiweb.com> To: www-talk@www10.w3.org Subject: Parsing query string in perl In-Reply-To: <1362.9505031021@afs.mcc.ac.uk> Message-Id: <Pine.BSD/.3.91.950508121328.2352A-100000@altair.shaktiweb.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 594 Hi, Can anyone give me a pointer to perl code that parses a CGI query string, similar to "unescape_url" etc in url.c? Thanx _\\|//_ ( O-O ) --------------------------o00--(_)--00o------------------------------ Rupesh Kapoor email: rupesh@shaktiweb.com PARSEC Communications details: finger / HTTP MOTD: I haven't lost my mind, it's backed up on some tape somewhere. --------------------------o00--(_)--00o------------------------------ _( O-O )_ //|\\ eturn-Path: TROTH%ua1vm.ua.edu@www10.w3.org Return-Path: <TROTH%ua1vm.ua.edu@www10.w3.org> Received: from mintaka.lcs.mit.edu by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AC02164; Mon, 8 May 1995 18:05:23 +0500 Received: from www10.w3.org by MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU id aa25346; 8 May 95 16:44 EDT Received: from UA1VM.UA.EDU by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA07072; Mon, 8 May 1995 15:17:57 +0500 Message-Id: <9505081917.AA07072@www10.w3.org> Received: from UA1VM.UA.EDU by UA1VM.UA.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 6027; Mon, 08 May 95 14:18:04 CDT Received: from UA1VM.UA.EDU (NJE origin TROTH@UA1VM) by UA1VM.UA.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 5752; Mon, 8 May 1995 14:18:04 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mail-User-Agent: MAILBOOK/90.01.01 Date: Mon, 08 May 95 13:42:06 CDT From: Rick Troth <TROTH@ua1vm.ua.edu> Subject: Re: HTTP Content-length question... To: Henrik Frystyk Nielsen <frystyk@w3.org>, Multiple recipients of list <www-talk@www10.w3.org> In-Reply-To: Message of Sun, 7 May 1995 16:54:07 +0500 from <frystyk@w3.org> Content-Length: 0 >> The problem I am facing is, this header is returned for most kind of >> objects (image/gif, audio/au etc) but not for text/html. ... >If this is the case then it is a server bug! The Content-Length header >should be sent whenever possible in a full response, and it should certainly >not have anything to do with the media type in which the object is rendered. NO, it's not as much of a bug as you might at first suspect. Objects which are text/html should really be converted from LF line delimiters to CR/LF line delimiters. That takes more work than just a quick stat(), which is sufficient for image/gif and audio/au (both of which are sent out as-is in binary). It is unfortunate that a number of servers are "lazy" and don't "canonicalize" text/html correctly. >I can imagine that the problems can be due to server side includes in the >documents or dynamic documents generated by scripts. Well, yes. That too. >Henrik Frystyk frystyk@W3.org >World-Wide Web Consortium, Tel + 1 617 258 8143 >MIT/LCS, NE43-356 Fax + 1 617 258 8682 >77 Massachusetts Avenue >Cambridge MA 02154, USA > > -- Rick Troth <troth@ua1vm.ua.edu>, Houston, Texas, USA http://ua1vm.ua.edu/~troth/ eturn-Path: TROTH@ua1vm.ua.edu Return-Path: <TROTH@ua1vm.ua.edu> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA03748; Mon, 8 May 1995 18:12:44 +0500 Received: from UA1VM.UA.EDU by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA08541; Mon, 8 May 1995 18:10:17 +0500 Message-Id: <9505082210.AA08541@www10.w3.org> Received: from UA1VM.UA.EDU by UA1VM.UA.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 6185; Mon, 08 May 95 17:10:27 CDT Received: from UA1VM.UA.EDU (NJE origin TROTH@UA1VM) by UA1VM.UA.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 2042; Mon, 8 May 1995 17:10:27 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mail-User-Agent: MAILBOOK/90.01.01 Date: Mon, 08 May 95 17:00:37 CDT From: Rick Troth <TROTH@ua1vm.ua.edu> Subject: Re: User authentication To: Multiple recipients of list <www-talk@www10.w3.org> Content-Length: 1641 I've been considering "agent authentication" for a different protocol (other than HTTP or SMTP or NNTP). It seems (and someone suggested this to me) that we need a general purpose user authentication mechanism, something that several protocols could consult. IDENT is available [I may get flamed for even mentioning it] but isn't "real authentication". Perhaps something stronger? But what about the range of administrative domains? Why (HOW) would you trust foo.com to confirm that I am troth@foo.com when you don't trust foo.com for anything else? (no shared trust; no mutual trust) I can see a client that tells a server "I'm acting on behalf of so-and-so; check me out for yourself" where the server then takes a challenge/response pair and runs that against the client host. I don't think this is any stronger than IDENT. IDENT is pretty good (but not 100%) FOR LOGGING. If you check a socket and the client host says, "it's troth on this end", then you can defer the real authentication to the client host. That is, if you don't trust the client host at all, fine. But if somehow you can trust the client host, then you can (within reason) trust the IDENT info from it. (forgery here is possible but somewhat more difficult than with raw SMTP or NTTP) I don't see any way to do "real authentication" without using public key electronic signatures, and I question whether or not we need something that strong to eliminate news and mail forgery. Thoughts? -- Rick Troth <troth@ua1vm.ua.edu>, Houston, Texas, USA http://ua1vm.ua.edu/~troth/ eturn-Path: frystyk%w3.org@www10.w3.org Return-Path: 96 Received: from mintaka.lcs.mit.edu by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AH11126; Mon, 8 May 1995 20:29:20 +0500 Received: from www10.w3.org by MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU id aa24963; 8 May 95 16:11 EDT Received: from www20 (www20.w3.org) by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA07508; Mon, 8 May 1995 16:02:12 +0500 Received: by www20 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA24306; Mon, 8 May 1995 16:00:40 +0500 Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 16:00:40 +0500 From: frystyk@w3.org (Henrik Frystyk Nielsen) Message-Id: <9505082000.AA24306@www20> To: www-talk@w3.org, TROTH@ua1vm.ua.edu Subject: Re: HTTP Content-length question... Reply-To: Henrik Frystyk Nielsen <frystyk@w3.org> X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 1168 > >If this is the case then it is a server bug! The Content-Length header > >should be sent whenever possible in a full response, and it should certainly > >not have anything to do with the media type in which the object is rendered. > > NO, it's not as much of a bug as you might at first suspect. > Objects which are text/html should really be converted from LF line > delimiters to CR/LF line delimiters. That takes more work than just a > quick stat(), which is sufficient for image/gif and audio/au (both of > which are sent out as-is in binary). It is unfortunate that a number > of servers are "lazy" and don't "canonicalize" text/html correctly. This is prefectly OK, as HTTP/1.0 defines its own `canonicalization' of type `text' and `application' where CR, LF, or any octet sequence defined by a character set all represent the equivalent of CRLF, though only in the entity-body! -- cheers -- Henrik Frystyk frystyk@W3.org World-Wide Web Consortium, Tel + 1 617 258 8143 MIT/LCS, NE43-356 Fax + 1 617 258 8682 77 Massachusetts Avenue Cambridge MA 02154, USA eturn-Path: othello!alvin@uunorth.north.net Return-Path: <othello!alvin@uunorth.north.net> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA18193; Mon, 8 May 1995 21:36:08 +0500 Received: from uunorth.uunorth.north.net (uunorth.north.net) by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA10671; Mon, 8 May 1995 21:36:01 +0500 Received: from othello by uunorth.uunorth.north.net with uucp (Smail3.1.29.1 #3) id m0s8f4i-0006M5C; Mon, 8 May 95 21:31 CDT Received: by eyepoint.com id <111>; Mon, 8 May 1995 21:31:38 -0400 Subject: Re: your mail From: Alvin Starr <alvin@eyepoint.com> To: uunorth!www10.w3.org!www-talk Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 21:31:37 -0400 In-Reply-To: <m0s8E13-0006LnC@uunorth.uunorth.north.net>; from "www10.w3.org!www-talk" at May 7, 95 5:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Message-Id: <95May8.213138edt.111@eyepoint.com> Content-Length: 1347 > Could anyone describe the pros and cons of various systems (operating > system, hardware/software, connections, etc.) for setting up a Web Server > for home or office. > > Is a mac better than windows NT or Sparcstation? For the office we have > direct access to the internet and we have one Sparcstation 20 and one Sparc > 5. We may or may not be able to use those for internet apps. Should be > purchase another Sparc or buy a mac...windows NT? > > For the home what would be best? > If you are not going to make heavy use of the web server it may be a good idea to use Linux on a 386 clone PC. The price for linux is right, about $20-$50 for a CD. The performance is acceptable, Linux will run quite happly on an 8M system. If you have a reason to want to minimize your support issues then it may be worth your while to go with a sparc solution since you allready have 2. Windows NT will work but the cost/performace of NT is about 1/2 of that of linux. Also the off the shelf software for NT is nowhere as complete as that available for Linux/Solaris. I have installed Internet services on the 3 above OS's and am baseing my comments on experiance. Mac I have no idea about -- Alvin Starr || voice: (905)513-6717 Eyepoint Inc. || fax: (905)513-6718 alvin@eyepoint.com || eturn-Path: bsobilof@inet.ed.gov Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA29456; Mon, 8 May 1995 23:35:55 +0500 Received: from inet.ed.gov by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA11575; Mon, 8 May 1995 23:35:54 +0500 Return-Path: <bsobilof@inet.ed.gov> Message-Id: <v02120c05abd48dd36447@[168.143.7.200]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 23:37:13 -0400 To: www-talk@www10.w3.org From: bsobilof@inet.ed.gov (Blake Sobiloff) Subject: Re: your mail Content-Length: 1612 At 1:36 PM 5/8/95, Alvin Starr wrote: >Mac I have no idea about I'll chime in on this one. :-) I've setup and maintained NCSA, Cern, WN, and Netscape httpd systems running under SunOS, Solaris, Linux (Slackware), and MacHTTP under the MacOS. By far, the easiest server to get up and running was the MacOS with MacHTTP (now called WebStar). MacHTTP can do just about everything the other httpds can do, but it is a piece of cake to manage (uses forms just like the commercial Netscape daemon) and its a heck of a lot cheaper than a UNIX box. The UNIX-variants were/are more involved and really require someone with good UNIX knowledge to be able to run the systems. It's harder to find (and costs more to keep) someone with UNIX skills than Mac skills. And frankly, until you're dishing out well over a million hits a week, it really doesn't pay for most folks to futz with the UNIX-based systems -- especially if they don't already have in-house UNIX experience. If there's a feature with a particular UNIX daemon that the Mac version doesn't have, and you're willing to pay the premium, go ahead and go UNIX. But if you just want to get some pages up cheaply, the Mac is hard to beat (and I'm not even going to bring in arguments about RAICs (redundant arrays of inexpensive computers) :-). -- Blake Sobiloff <bsobilof@inet.ed.gov> Internet Systems Analyst/Webmaster (speaking only for myself) Decision Systems Technologies, Inc. Voice: 301/441-3377 Greenbelt, MD 20770 USA Fax: 301/441-4571 http://inet.ed.gov/~bsobilof/ eturn-Path: masinter@parc.xerox.com Return-Path: <masinter@parc.xerox.com> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA03840; Tue, 9 May 1995 00:41:35 +0500 Received: from alpha.xerox.com by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA12023; Tue, 9 May 1995 00:41:33 +0500 Received: from golden.parc.xerox.com ([13.1.100.139]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14493(4)>; Mon, 8 May 1995 21:41:20 PDT Received: by golden.parc.xerox.com id <2761>; Mon, 8 May 1995 21:41:12 -0700 To: Jared_Rhine@hmc.edu Cc: www-talk@www10.w3.org In-Reply-To: Jared Rhine's message of Mon, 8 May 1995 01:23:08 -0700 <199505081649.JAA03728@aslan.math.hmc.edu> Subject: Re: Content-lengths of dynamic objects From: Larry Masinter <masinter@parc.xerox.com> Sender: Larry Masinter <masinter@parc.xerox.com> Fake-Sender: masinter@parc.xerox.com Message-Id: <95May8.214112pdt.2761@golden.parc.xerox.com> Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 21:41:10 PDT Content-Length: 573 Caching is a bad idea for something that changes length every time it's called. (Oh, quote-of-the-day, for example, or just the output from a request form.) Waiting to cache something that will never be needed again doesn't optimize anything, and adds unnecessary latency to the transaction while the server generates all of the data. I've noticed web sites that give the appearance of rapid response from search requests by returning immediately the header (complete with large inline usually-cached-by-the-client images) before actually completing the search results. eturn-Path: mvanheyn@pellet.spry.com Return-Path: <mvanheyn@pellet.spry.com> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AC04332; Tue, 9 May 1995 00:48:08 +0500 Received: from homer.spry.com by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA12052; Tue, 9 May 1995 00:48:02 +0500 Received: from pellet.spry.com (pellet [198.185.1.189]) by homer.spry.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA16554; Mon, 8 May 1995 21:48:34 -0700 From: marcvh@spry.com (Marc VanHeyningen) To: TROTH@ua1vm.ua.edu Cc: Multiple recipients of list <www-talk@www10.w3.org> Subject: Re: HTTP Content-length question... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 08 May 1995 20:36:13 +0500." <9505081917.AA07072@www10.w3.org> Date: Mon, 08 May 1995 21:47:51 -0700 Message-Id: <13339.799994871@pellet.spry.com> Sender: mvanheyn@pellet.spry.com Content-Length: 1400 Thus wrote: Rick Troth > NO, it's not as much of a bug as you might at first suspect. >Objects which are text/html should really be converted from LF line >delimiters to CR/LF line delimiters. That takes more work than just a >quick stat(), which is sufficient for image/gif and audio/au (both of >which are sent out as-is in binary). It is unfortunate that a number >of servers are "lazy" and don't "canonicalize" text/html correctly. Well, it is unfortunate that more serious thought wan't given to to the problems involved with this, perhaps. Canonicalization of textual line breaks, however, is no longer required under HTTP in general; instead, all HTTP software is required to be able to recognize various different common line endings when receiving bodies. The result is not fantastic or elegant but it's workable. (Not that it matters too much with HTML, since aside from in <PRE> all whitespace is created equal. But, since HTML and HTTP are orthogonal, it's still an issue.) >>I can imagine that the problems can be due to server side includes in the >>documents or dynamic documents generated by scripts. Of course; there are limits on how much buffering one wants to do. I'll use this moment to revisit my personal pet idea, which is that the headers and status line and other metadata really should go after the body of the response, not before it. :-) - Marc eturn-Path: narnett@verity.com Return-Path: <narnett@verity.com> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AC07150; Tue, 9 May 1995 01:19:53 +0500 Received: from verity.com (unknown-143-5.verity.com) by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA12289; Tue, 9 May 1995 01:19:51 +0500 Received: from [192.187.143.12] (portanick.verity.com) by verity.com (4.1/SMI-4.1_Verity-Main-950202) id AA13861; Mon, 8 May 95 22:19:03 PDT X-Sender: narnett@hawaii.verity.com Message-Id: <abd4a234010210044429@[192.187.143.12]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 22:19:29 -0700 To: www-talk@www10.w3.org, www-html@www10.w3.org, newshound-list@best.com, free-market@ar.com, machttp-talk@academ.com, /CN=robots/@nexor.co.uk, web4lib@library.berkeley.edu, www-lib@www10.w3.org, owner-www-security@ns2.rutgers.edu From: narnett@verity.com (Nick Arnett) Subject: Verity Internet Virtual Library update; Verity/Netscape announcement Content-Length: 1097 As some of you may know, though we haven't advertised it for a while, the lists to which I'm sending this message, as well as many other Web-related mailing lists, are browsable at [http://vlibmail.verity.com/www.html] (also known as asearch.mccmedia.com). We've been working on making the text-to-hypertext better and more reliable, while also adding increased search and retrieval capabilities, with much more to come. Each list has a search page that searches only that list; the entire collection plus about 100 Web-related sites are searchable at [http://www.verity.com/http://www.verity.com/vlibsearch.html]. (If you get this message in the next few hours, you'll find that its index is being rebuilt; we're getting ready to make a major announcement with Netscape tomorrow. See <a href="http://vlibmail.verity.com/PR/950508ns.html">Verity and Netscape Team Up to Bring Topic Agent Technology to the Internet</a>. We also have an announcement with Microsoft, with regard to Exchange. Nick Arnett World Wide Web Product Marketing Manager Verity Inc. narnett@verity.com (415) 960-7600 eturn-Path: jeremie@netins.net Return-Path: <jeremie@netins.net> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AB07223; Tue, 9 May 1995 01:25:12 +0500 Received: from worf.infonet.net by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA12302; Tue, 9 May 1995 01:25:10 +0500 Received: from s2173.netins.net (s2173.netins.net [167.142.102.173]) by worf.infonet.net with SMTP id AAA04832 for <www-talk@www10.w3.org>; Tue, 9 May 1995 00:25:06 -0500 Message-Id: <199505090525.AAA04832@worf.infonet.net> X-Sender: jeremie@netins.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 09 May 1995 00:24:37 -0400 To: www-talk@www10.w3.org From: jeremie@netins.net (Jeremie Miller) Subject: Reasonable new feature? Content-Length: 1768 I have done a good deal of HTML page development for various different reasons, and have found this idea to be useful in many cases. I propose an addition to HTML 3.0 that would allow small windows to pop up when the mouse is overtop of some keywords, containing some information. Example: <body> This is a new feature of <window show="HyperText Markup Language">HTML</window>. </body> OR <body> This is a new feature of <a html="HyperText Markup Language" window>HTML</a>. </body> Rendered This is a new feature of HTML \_________________________ |HyperText Markup Language| ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ There are many times when this would be useful to present information. From my experience in programming, it does not seem a difficult task to add such a feature in a browser. The tag is simple and aids the general puprpose of HTML. I would appresiate any feedback and discussion on it's possibilities or functionality. Jeremie Miller jeremie@netins.net ------------0 -----------Jeremie Miller------------------------* -* -* ------- -----* ----------------jeremie@netins.net-------------------0 ----------* ---- ---* ------* -------------------------------------------------------------* -- --* ----* -* --* * ----** ------* * ------** ---** --** ---* -------* * ----* ---* * ---* -* ---* --* -* ---* ---* ---* -* -* -* -* * ---* ------* ---* ---* ---------* --* ---* --* --* --* ---* --* --* * --* * -* --* * -----* ---* ---* --------* -----* -----* --* ----* -----* ---* ----* ---* -* --* -----* -----* -* ----* --* * ---* * ------* * ---* * ------------------* ------* * ---* -* - ---* * ----------------------------------------------------------------------- eturn-Path: klute@heike.nads.de Return-Path: <klute@heike.nads.de> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AC16430; Tue, 9 May 1995 02:56:59 +0500 Received: from heike.nads.de by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA13002; Tue, 9 May 1995 02:56:57 +0500 Received: from heike (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by heike.nads.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA11381; Tue, 9 May 1995 08:56:07 +0200 Message-Id: <199505090656.IAA11381@heike.nads.de> To: masinter@parc.xerox.com Cc: Multiple recipients of list <www-talk@www10.w3.org>, klute@heike.nads.de Subject: Re: Content-lengths of dynamic objects Reply-To: Rainer Klute <klute@nads.de> Organization: NADS GmbH, Germany Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 09 May 1995 01:01:42 +0500. <95May8.214112pdt.2761@golden.parc.xerox.com> Date: Tue, 09 May 1995 08:56:06 +0200 From: Rainer Klute <klute@nads.de> Content-Length: 886 >Caching is a bad idea for something that changes length every time >it's called. (Oh, quote-of-the-day, for example, or just the output >from a request form.) That's what the Expires header is good for, isn't it? See <http://www.nads.de/NADS/Ueberblick/heute> for an example. This URL gives you an overview of events in Düsseldorf and about for the very day. It expires at the end of the day (local time in Germany). (In fact, it is just a 302 Redirect message pointing to the real document. To make the CERN httpd cache redirections, see my patch under <http://www.nads.de/NADS/Public/WWWTechnik/WWWDaemon-patch.01.gz>.) Best regards Rainer Klute Dipl.-Inform. Rainer Klute NADS - Advertising on nets NADS GmbH Emil-Figge-Str. 80 Tel.: +49 231 9742570 D-44227 Dortmund Fax: +49 231 9742571 <http://www.nads.de/~klute/> eturn-Path: mcclurea@nag.cs.colorado.edu Return-Path: <mcclurea@nag.cs.colorado.edu> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA17644; Tue, 9 May 1995 03:13:18 +0500 Received: from nag.cs.colorado.edu by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA13131; Tue, 9 May 1995 03:13:16 +0500 Received: (from mcclurea@localhost) by nag.cs.colorado.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) id BAA20417; Tue, 9 May 1995 01:13:11 -0600 From: "Adam T. McClure" <mcclurea@nag.cs.colorado.edu> Message-Id: <199505090713.BAA20417@nag.cs.colorado.edu> Subject: How bout types of colored links? To: jeremie@netins.net Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 01:13:11 -0600 (MDT) Cc: www-talk@www10.w3.org In-Reply-To: <199505090525.AAA04832@worf.infonet.net> from "Jeremie Miller" at May 9, 95 02:27:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1382 I think Jeremy Miller's idea of having popup menus is an excellent one, and wanted to ask this group if an idea I had is worth considering. One of the things I ran into in creating a teching tool recently was that I couldn't denote a particular thread. I wanted to target the paper for multiple audiences and provide support for less technically- inclined audiences without compromising the flow of the paper. It seemed logical to me to define a named type of link that has a particular color associated with it. All the references to definitions could be in blue, the links to other elements of the discussion in red, and purple would jump off my server to an off-site page. All visited links could be tan if I felt like it. There's currently a method in Netscape 1.1 to define different colors for visited and new links, as well as redefining the standard text color, but there's no way to have your own labelled links. Am I way behind the times, or is this a legitimate item? -- _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Adam T. McClure Integrated Teaching & Learning project mcclurea@colorado.edu University of Colorado-Boulder <a href="http://itldemo.colorado.edu/rootitl.html></a> You know what I like about standards? There's so many to choose from. _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ eturn-Path: jared@math.hmc.edu Return-Path: <jared@math.hmc.edu> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AC19214; Tue, 9 May 1995 03:31:06 +0500 Received: from aslan.math.hmc.edu by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA13246; Tue, 9 May 1995 03:31:00 +0500 Received: (from jared@localhost) by aslan.math.hmc.edu (8.6.8.1/8.6.7) id AAA09553; Tue, 9 May 1995 00:30:55 -0700 Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 00:30:55 -0700 Message-Id: <199505090730.AAA09553@aslan.math.hmc.edu> From: Jared Rhine <Jared_Rhine@hmc.edu> To: Larry Masinter <masinter@parc.xerox.com> Cc: www-talk@www10.w3.org Subject: Re: Content-lengths of dynamic objects References: <199505081649.JAA03728@aslan.math.hmc.edu> <95May8.214112pdt.2761@golden.parc.xerox.com> X-Attribution: JRhine X-Uri: <URL:http://www.hmc.edu/~jared/home> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 986 [Citation date: Mon, 8 May 1995 21:41:10 PDT] LM == Larry Masinter <masinter@parc.xerox.com> LM> Caching is a bad idea for something that changes length every time LM> it's called. (Oh, quote-of-the-day, for example, or just the output LM> from a request form.) Waiting to cache something that will never be LM> needed again doesn't optimize anything, and adds unnecessary latency LM> to the transaction while the server generates all of the data. Granted, but I'm not entirely sure of the connection you're trying to make. For the most part, my dynamically generated objects don't change length or content and it's ok to cache them. For the ones that do change every time, I add an Expires header to the response to let know caching mechanisms now not to cache it. Unfortunately, my tests indicate that Netscape doesn't handle the Expires header properly :( -- Jared_Rhine@hmc.edu / HMC / <URL:http://www.hmc.edu/~jared/home> "To live is to war with trolls." -- Ibsen eturn-Path: klute@heike.nads.de Return-Path: <klute@heike.nads.de> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA00340; Tue, 9 May 1995 05:15:18 +0500 Received: from heike.nads.de by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA14178; Tue, 9 May 1995 05:15:09 +0500 Received: from heike (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by heike.nads.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA11662; Tue, 9 May 1995 10:30:57 +0200 Message-Id: <199505090830.KAA11662@heike.nads.de> To: Jared_Rhine@hmc.edu Cc: Multiple recipients of list <www-talk@www10.w3.org>, klute@heike.nads.de Subject: Re: Content-lengths of dynamic objects Reply-To: Rainer Klute <klute@nads.de> Organization: NADS GmbH, Germany Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 09 May 1995 03:59:52 +0500. <199505090730.AAA09553@aslan.math.hmc.edu> Date: Tue, 09 May 1995 10:30:57 +0200 From: Rainer Klute <klute@nads.de> Content-Length: 499 >Unfortunately, my tests indicate that Netscape doesn't >handle the Expires header properly :( Not to defend Netscape against anything, but is there a client at all that handles Expires properly? Not even the CERN proxy does. Mit freundlichen Grüßen Rainer Klute Dipl.-Inform. Rainer Klute NADS - Advertising on nets NADS GmbH Emil-Figge-Str. 80 Tel.: +49 231 9742570 D-44227 Dortmund Fax: +49 231 9742571 <http://www.nads.de/~klute/> eturn-Path: bert@let.rug.nl Return-Path: <bert@let.rug.nl> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA09663; Tue, 9 May 1995 06:22:38 +0500 Received: from freya.let.rug.nl by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA14936; Tue, 9 May 1995 06:22:34 +0500 Received: from grid.let.rug.nl by freya.let.rug.nl with ESMTP (1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA212924947; Tue, 9 May 1995 12:22:27 +0200 Message-Id: <199505091022.AA212924947@freya.let.rug.nl> Received: by grid.let.rug.nl (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA079314946; Tue, 9 May 1995 12:22:26 +0200 From: Bert Bos <bert@let.rug.nl> Subject: Re: Reasonable new feature? To: jeremie@netins.net Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 12:22:25 +0200 (METDST) Cc: www-talk@www10.w3.org In-Reply-To: <199505090525.AAA04832@worf.infonet.net> from "Jeremie Miller" at May 9, 95 02:17:18 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1354 Jeremie Miller <jeremie@netins.net> writes: |I have done a good deal of HTML page development for various different |reasons, and have found this idea to be useful in many cases. I propose an |addition to HTML 3.0 that would allow small windows to pop up when the mouse |is overtop of some keywords, containing some information. Example: | |<body> |This is a new feature of |<window show="HyperText Markup Language">HTML</window>. |</body> | |OR | |<body> |This is a new feature of |<a html="HyperText Markup Language" window>HTML</a>. |</body> | |Rendered | |This is a new feature of HTML | \_________________________ | |HyperText Markup Language| | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You're too late, it has already been proposed:-) It now seems likely that there will be a footnote tag (<FN>) in HTML 3.0, with a suggested rendering like what you describe. See <http://www.hpl.hp.co.uk/people/dsr/html3/CoverPage.html> for the currently proposed syntax. The exact syntax may still change, but the basic idea is there. Bert -- Bert Bos Alfa-informatica <bert@let.rug.nl> Rijksuniversiteit Groningen <http://www.let.rug.nl/~bert/> Postbus 716, NL-9700 AS GRONINGEN eturn-Path: randy@zyzzyva.com Return-Path: <randy@zyzzyva.com> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA22977; Tue, 9 May 1995 08:04:10 +0500 Received: from sierra.zyzzyva.com (ppp0.zyzzyva.com) by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA15912; Tue, 9 May 1995 08:03:56 +0500 Received: from zyzzyva.com (randy@localhost.zyzzyva.com [127.0.0.1]) by sierra.zyzzyva.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id GAA24807; Tue, 9 May 1995 06:55:27 -0500 Message-Id: <199505091155.GAA24807@sierra.zyzzyva.com> To: rich@oester.com Cc: www-talk@w3.org Subject: Re: multiple home pages/ips In-Reply-To: rich's message of Sun, 07 May 1995 15:10:18 +0500. <199505071900.MAA12723@kitty.oester.com> X-Uri: http://www.inetnebr.com/zyzzyva/ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 09 May 1995 06:55:18 -0500 From: Randy Terbush <randy@zyzzyva.com> Content-Length: 368 > > as for the apache hint - unless something has changed, how to do this is not > documented, and the actual routing manipulations will probably be somewhat > unix vendor/setup specific; there's at least two ways this can be done. > > rich Check out <URL: http://www.apache.org/apache/docs/virtual-host> or <URL: http://hyperreal.com/apache/docs/virtual-host> eturn-Path: sarr@citi.umich.edu Return-Path: <sarr@citi.umich.edu> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AB07200; Tue, 9 May 1995 09:59:34 +0500 Received: from citi.umich.edu by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA17072; Tue, 9 May 1995 09:57:16 +0500 Message-Id: <9505091357.AA17072@www10.w3.org> Received: from citi.umich.edu by citi.umich.edu for mcclurea@nag.cs.colorado.edu www-talk@www10.w3.org with SMTP; Tue, 09 May 95 09:55:58 -0400 From: Sarr Blumson <sarr@citi.umich.edu> To: mcclurea@nag.cs.colorado.edu Cc: Multiple recipients of list <www-talk@www10.w3.org> Date: Tue, 09 May 1995 09:55:56 -0400 Subject: Re: How bout types of colored links? X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 09 May 1995 03:24:30 +0500." <199505090713.BAA20417@nag.cs.colorado.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Length: 1958 Well, here I go again: In message <199505090713.BAA20417@nag.cs.colorado.edu>you write: >One of the things I ran into in creating a teching tool recently was >that I couldn't denote a particular thread. I wanted to target the >paper for multiple audiences and provide support for less technically- >inclined audiences without compromising the flow of the paper. It >seemed logical to me to define a named type of link that has a particular >color associated with it. All the references to definitions could be >in blue, the links to other elements of the discussion in red, and >purple would jump off my server to an off-site page. All visited >links could be tan if I felt like it. There's currently a method in >Netscape 1.1 to define different colors for visited and new links, >as well as redefining the standard text color, but there's no way >to have your own labelled links. No, No, No! HTML should describe structure, not rendering. The ability to describe different classes of links is an interesting idea, but how those classes are represented is a browser issue. Something like 10 percent of males in the United States are at least pertially color blind; many of the rest of us have vision difficulties that are sensitive to the contrast between background and text colors. What you are proposing will make your links invisible to many people, and because they're described as "green links" rather than "definition links" you've made it difficult to configure our browsers so we can. It is sad that the folks at Netscape have gone off in the direction they have, and even sadder that the market place is making them the definition of the standard rather than the standards. But it's still the wrong thing. -------- Sarr Blumson sarr@umich.edu voice: +1 313 764 0253 FAX: +1 313 763 4434 CITI, University of Michigan http://www.umich.edu/~sarr/ 519 W William, Ann Arbor, MI 48103-4943 eturn-Path: habib@world.std.com Return-Path: <habib@world.std.com> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AB11958; Tue, 9 May 1995 10:23:20 +0500 Received: from europe.std.com by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA17436; Tue, 9 May 1995 10:21:03 +0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id KAA03353; Tue, 9 May 1995 10:20:38 -0400 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07716; Tue, 9 May 1995 10:20:37 -0400 Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 10:20:37 +0059 (EDT) From: Steve H Rose <habib@world.std.com> Subject: Re: File names To: Multiple recipients of list <www-talk@www10.w3.org> In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91-941213.950508140848.11828A-100000@eata.ncl.ac.uk> Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9505091051.G18201-0100000@world.std.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 887 This is server specific. Some servers, at least, are set up to automatically load other file names when they are not specified in your URL (e.g. welcome.html). What browser are you using? (please reply to me directly, and I'll see if I can help) Yours, Steve Habib Rose On Mon, 8 May 1995, Frank Olav Estensen wrote: > How can I find the file name of a document with the URL: > > http://foo.co.uk/ > > Is there a methode to get the filename, or do I just have to assume > index.html? > > Mr Frank Olav Estensen > Student, Computing Science part III, University of Newcastle > WWW : http://www.newcasle.ac.uk/~n314974 > http://www.nordnett.no/~estensen > E-mail: Snail-mail: > F.O.Estensen@newcastle.ac.uk 105 Stratford Road > F.O.Estensen@nordnett.no Heaton > Phone: Newcastle upon Tyne > +44 91 224 2355 NE6 5AS > +47 75 56 09 48 England > eturn-Path: jkillian@access.digex.net Return-Path: <jkillian@access.digex.net> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AB17879; Tue, 9 May 1995 11:00:19 +0500 Received: from access5.digex.net by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA17954; Tue, 9 May 1995 10:57:44 +0500 Received: from bac06998.slip (bac06998.slip.digex.net) by access5.digex.net with SMTP id AA17911 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for <www-talk@www10.w3.org>); Tue, 9 May 1995 10:56:32 -0400 Message-Id: <199505091456.AA17911@access5.digex.net> X-Sender: jkillian@access.digex.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 09 May 1995 07:56:12 -0700 To: "Ron Wolf" <ron.e.wolf@tsphere.com>, "Dianna Goble" <dmgoble@netcom.com>, ken@best.com, "Greg Lindberg" <theg@tripnspin.com>, "Multiple recipients of list" <www-talk@www10.w3.org>, "Charles Pontious" <charlie@mdli.com>, "Andrew Weiss" <aweiss@aimnet.com>, "Preston Gordon" <admin@tsphere.com>, "George Kellar" <george@tsphere.com>, "Charlie Schoenhoeft" <chaz@tsphere.com> From: jkillian@access.digex.net (Jim Killian) Subject: Re: Dynamic HTML documents with Content-Length: 2523 I believe Netscape intends to use this (or something similar to it) for simple animations techniques as well. >>> Jim At 10:54 AM 5/8/95 -0800, Ron Wolf wrote: >Mail*Link(r) SMTP Dynamic HTML documents with client pull > >Interesting feature here. >___________Ron >Ulf Kronman writes: > > > > I had to take a look at the HTML source to find out what this was, and I > > found a new HTML directive looking something like this: > > > > <META HTTP-EQUIV=REFRESH CONTENT="20; URL=http://[file name].au"> > > > > I presume this tells Netscape to download the audio file 20 seconds after > > the page has been loaded. > > > > Is this nuicance going to be a part of the proposed HTML v 3.0 or is it a > > Netscape specific extension? > >The META tag is HTML 2. Standard stuff. Used for several indexing >applications, as far as I know. > >Sounds like they've chosen to interpret "http-equiv=refresh" to mean >that the client should go retrieve some stuff after a little >while. Hmmm... I thought http-equiv was intended for the server to >spit out HTTP headers when this document is served. This might be >different from the spirit of the spec, but it's not inconsistent, >technically. > >In any case: the HTML spec is hardly relavent. This is an HTTP-related >innovation. > > > This is AWFULL - this means that the time when *you* choose what you want > > so see on the web is gone! TV-style advertising is entering the Web! > >So don't visit providers that use this feature. > >Netscape has enabled a certain class of applications, but ultimately, >you still choose whether to participate in them or not. > >As an information provider, you choose whether you want to rely on such >experimental features or not too. > >Dan > >------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ >Received: by tsphere.com with SMTP;28 Apr 1995 18:09:53 -0800 >Received: from (localhost) by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) > id AA06983; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 20:23:05 +0500 >Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 20:23:05 +0500 >Message-Id: <9504282104.AA18211@www16> >Errors-To: procmaster@www19.w3.org >Reply-To: connolly@w3.org >Originator: www-talk@mail.w3.org >Sender: www-talk@www10.w3.org >Precedence: bulk >From: connolly@w3.org (Dan Connolly) >To: Multiple recipients of list <www-talk@www10.w3.org> >Subject: Dynamic HTML documents with client pull >X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas >X-Comment: To sign off, send mail to listproc@mail.w3.org with body DEL >WWW-TALK >content-length: 1419 > > > > > eturn-Path: brian@organic.com Return-Path: <brian@organic.com> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA23549; Tue, 9 May 1995 11:41:27 +0500 Received: from eat.organic.com by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA18383; Tue, 9 May 1995 11:38:40 +0500 Received: (from brian@localhost) by eat.organic.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA19318; Tue, 9 May 1995 08:38:58 -0700 Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 08:38:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Behlendorf <brian@organic.com> Subject: Re: How bout types of colored links? To: "Adam T. McClure" <mcclurea@nag.cs.colorado.edu> Cc: Multiple recipients of list <www-talk@www10.w3.org> In-Reply-To: <199505090713.BAA20417@nag.cs.colorado.edu> Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9505090812.f24326-0100000@eat.organic.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1391 On Tue, 9 May 1995, Adam T. McClure wrote: > One of the things I ran into in creating a teching tool recently was > that I couldn't denote a particular thread. I wanted to target the > paper for multiple audiences and provide support for less technically- > inclined audiences without compromising the flow of the paper. It > seemed logical to me to define a named type of link that has a particular > color associated with it. All the references to definitions could be > in blue, the links to other elements of the discussion in red, and > purple would jump off my server to an off-site page. All visited > links could be tan if I felt like it. There's currently a method in > Netscape 1.1 to define different colors for visited and new links, > as well as redefining the standard text color, but there's no way > to have your own labelled links. This feels like a style sheet issue - you have something like a.class1 = #F00 a.class2 = #0F0 and then <a href="file1.html" class="class1">This class of link</a> <a href="file2.html" class="class2">That other class of link</a> Is this what you want? Style sheet designers should note the need for different colors for visited and not-yet-visited links of course. Brian --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-- brian@organic.com brian@hyperreal.com http://www.[hyperreal,organic].com/ eturn-Path: glv@utdallas.edu Return-Path: <glv@utdallas.edu> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA27329; Tue, 9 May 1995 12:12:57 +0500 Received: from utdallas.edu by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA18770; Tue, 9 May 1995 12:10:45 +0500 Received: from localname (oblivion.utdallas.edu [129.110.10.23]) by utdallas.edu (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id LAA24747; Tue, 9 May 1995 11:07:17 -0500 Message-Id: <199505091607.LAA24747@utdallas.edu> From: Glenn Vanderburg <glv@utdallas.edu> To: Rick Troth <troth@ua1vm.ua.edu> Cc: Multiple recipients of list <www-talk@www10.w3.org> Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 08 May 1995 19:24:54 +0500 (+0500)" <9505081839.AA06756@www10.w3.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 09 May 1995 11:06:21 -0500 Sender: glv@utdallas.edu Content-Length: 1200 Rick Troth writes: > > I don't understand why we're so hung up on > > http://X.mythical.host.com/ > http://Y.mythical.host.com/ > > Why can't we go directly to "non home" or sub-pages? > Why can't we do things like this: > > http://service.provider.net/home_page_X > http://service.provider.net/home_page_Y One reason is that the first form can often be guessed. I suspect that most of us have had an experience like this: "Gee, I sure would like to know what company X is up to these days. I wonder if they have a Web page? I suppose 'http://www.X.com/' is worth a try ..." It's surprising how often this works. And, to a degree, this is a good thing. Those of us who want to discourage broadcast-style advertising on the net see the advantage: if it's easy for people to find information on a company when they want to, then the passive style of advertising is more effective. The key problem here is that we have locators which are being used as names. People or organizations who are establishing Web presences are justified in thinking of the URL of their home pages as their Web "names". ---glv eturn-Path: ppetit@wct.fr Return-Path: <ppetit@wct.fr> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA04263; Tue, 9 May 1995 13:05:34 +0500 Received: from ares.wct.fr (zeus.wct.fr) by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA19518; Tue, 9 May 1995 13:02:51 +0500 Received: (from ppetit@localhost) by ares.wct.fr (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA11575 for www-talk@www10.w3.org; Tue, 9 May 1995 19:13:24 GMT From: Patrick Petit <ppetit@wct.fr> Message-Id: <199505091913.TAA11575@ares.wct.fr> Subject: Netscape Navigator License To: www-talk@www10.w3.org Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 19:13:24 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 518 Hi, I'm not sure it's the right place to send that query, but here it goes.... Well, I've been trying to get an answer from moreinfo@netscape.com without success. Maybe someone here has the answer. Does Netscape support Navigator's binary license for Linux and Solaris x86 platforms? Cheers, ---------------------------------------------------------------- Patrick Petit Voice: (33) 1 42 36 90 47 World Channel Technologies Email: ppetit@wct.fr 8, rue Saint Marc 75002 Paris Fax: (33) 1 45 08 51 96 France eturn-Path: nazgul@utopia.com Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA00556; Tue, 9 May 1995 16:36:58 +0500 Received: from utopia.com (utopia.wing.net) by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA21769; Tue, 9 May 1995 16:34:43 +0500 Received: from [204.57.39.6] by utopia.com (8.6.12/SONY-4.0MX) id QAA11530; Tue, 9 May 1995 16:32:48 -0400 Return-Path: <nazgul@utopia.com> X-Sender: nazgul@mailhost.utopia.com Message-Id: <v02110111abd57f5a6e6a@[204.57.39.6]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 16:34:36 -0400 To: www-talk@www10.w3.org From: nazgul@utopia.com (Kee Hinckley) Subject: NCSA Server (1.3) and ScriptAlias problems Content-Length: 2054 The issue is how to deal with a ScriptAlias that is serving up multiple HTML files, e.g.: ScriptAlias /bgc/ /xxx/bgc/access/ ScriptAlias /bgc /xxx/bgc/access/ In particular, the problem is that the script can't tell the difference between being invoked with or without the trailing slash, and the difference is quite critical. I suspect that there should be a difference in PATH_INFO, but there isn't. Is that a bug, or is there another better way of dealing with this? 1. If you don't have the version with the trailing slash, the (non-trivial number of) people who hit the site without it will get a file not-found. This isn't the case when the server is handling access, but it is the case when you are using a ScriptAlias. 2. If you point them both at the same script, the script can't tell whether it was invoked with or without the slash (I believe there ought to be a difference in PATH_INFO, but there isn't). 3. The script can do one of two things when faced with a directory name with no index.html. It can't do a redirect to the index.html file (which takes up a fair amount of time, and of course additional server resources), or it can just server up the file. 4. If it serves up the file, the client will get all the relative links wrong. It's URL will look like "http://www.xxx.bar/foo", it will assume that "foo" is a file and make all links relative to the link instead of "foo/". You can try and fix this with a <base href=3D"correcturl"> in the index.html file, but that doesn't work for all browsers. 5. My solution therefore, is to have a separate script, bound to the non-slash version of the name, which does nothing but redirect the user to the correct URL. Ugly, but there it is. Comments? Kee Hinckley Utopia Inc. - Cyberspace Architects=81 617/721-6100 nazgul@utopia.com http://www.utopia.com/ I'm not sure which upsets me more: that people are so unwilling to accept responsibility for their own actions, or that they are so eager to regulate everyone else's. eturn-Path: nazgul@utopia.com Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AB00615; Tue, 9 May 1995 16:37:21 +0500 Received: from utopia.com (utopia.wing.net) by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA21770; Tue, 9 May 1995 16:35:04 +0500 Received: from [204.57.39.6] by utopia.com (8.6.12/SONY-4.0MX) id QAA11536; Tue, 9 May 1995 16:32:56 -0400 Return-Path: <nazgul@utopia.com> X-Sender: nazgul@mailhost.utopia.com Message-Id: <v02110114abd580d2c6d2@[204.57.39.6]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 16:34:50 -0400 To: Jared_Rhine@hmc.edu, Multiple recipients of list <www-talk@www10.w3.org> From: nazgul@utopia.com (Kee Hinckley) Subject: Re: Content-lengths of dynamic objects Content-Length: 896 At 1:14 PM 5/8/95, Jared Rhine wrote: >methods: 'compute_lastmod' and 'render'. When I want to render an object, = I >first instantiate the object, and invoke 'compute_lastmod' on it. I compar= e >the return value with the timestamp of an on-disk copy of the last >rendering. If they are the same, I simply serve the file off disk; if not, This has the disadvantage of leaving the user to wait until your render is done. Otherwise for large options you could be presenting the object while rendering, thus decreasing the overall display time and increasing user satisfaction. Kee Hinckley Utopia Inc. - Cyberspace Architects=81 617/721-6100 nazgul@utopia.com http://www.utopia.com/ I'm not sure which upsets me more: that people are so unwilling to accept responsibility for their own actions, or that they are so eager to regulate everyone else's. eturn-Path: dceccald@elaine.crcg.edu Return-Path: <dceccald@elaine.crcg.edu> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA08051; Tue, 9 May 1995 17:42:28 +0500 Received: from elaine.crcg.edu by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA22536; Tue, 9 May 1995 17:40:15 +0500 Received: from currawong.crcg.edu by elaine.crcg.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18107; Tue, 9 May 95 17:40:52 EST Received: by currawong.crcg.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA02685; Tue, 9 May 1995 18:42:05 -0400 Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 18:42:05 -0400 From: dceccald@elaine.crcg.edu (Danyel Ceccaldi) Message-Id: <9505092242.AA02685@currawong.crcg.edu> To: www-talk@w3.org Subject: Re: Modular Browsers (was:User authentication) X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 676 > From: "Adam T. McClure" <mcclurea@nag.cs.colorado.edu> > Subject: Re: Modular Browsers (was:User authentication) > Yeah, how bout an OpenDoc browser Netscape? > Is that a no-brainer or a novel concept? Perhaps there is more. What about an 'realistic' platform independant interface. Reality (for the moment) is: OS/2 - OpenDoc MacOS - OpenDoc Windows - OLE 2.0 UNIX - i don't remember a name, but there also a OpenDoc-like interface ... A few issues for such a modular Browser: - (Inter)action on client side - Style sheets - Layout control - Proxy-control (resolving host-moving-problems) - Downloading (and auto-installing) of small patches ... By Danyel eturn-Path: jared@math.hmc.edu Return-Path: <jared@math.hmc.edu> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA24246; Tue, 9 May 1995 20:06:44 +0500 Received: from aslan.math.hmc.edu by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA23684; Tue, 9 May 1995 20:04:24 +0500 Received: (from jared@localhost) by aslan.math.hmc.edu (8.6.8.1/8.6.7) id RAA17419; Tue, 9 May 1995 17:04:04 -0700 Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 17:04:04 -0700 Message-Id: <199505100004.RAA17419@aslan.math.hmc.edu> From: Jared Rhine <Jared_Rhine@hmc.edu> To: nazgul@utopia.com Cc: Multiple recipients of list <www-talk@www10.w3.org> Subject: Re: Content-lengths of dynamic objects References: <v02110114abd580d2c6d2@[204.57.39.6]> X-Attribution: JRhine X-Uri: <URL:http://www.hmc.edu/~jared/home> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 2353 [Citation date: Tue, 9 May 1995 17:11:40 +0500] KH == Kee Hinckley <nazgul@utopia.com> JRhine> When I want to render an object, I first instantiate the object, JRhine> and invoke 'compute_lastmod' on it. I compare the return value JRhine> with the timestamp of an on-disk copy of the last rendering. If JRhine> they are the same, I simply serve the file off disk... KH> This has the disadvantage of leaving the user to wait until your KH> render is done. Otherwise for large options you could be presenting KH> the object while rendering, thus decreasing the overall display time KH> and increasing user satisfaction. True, but I'm not sure what your objection is. In the vast majority of cases, object rendering time is inconsequential compared to network lag and client rendering time. Being able to incrementally render client side isn't that big of a win; the time difference between streaming to the client as the object is rendering and waiting until it is done before sending is no more than a few tenths of a second at the greatest and does not substantially affect perceived performance. In any case, this model is unavoidable because in many cases, dynamic objects do not follow a linear rendering flow; that is to say, I can't properly render the top until I've processed all the data for the object. There is a possible exception for heavily loaded servers that take on the order of seconds to render objects; in this case, there would be a noticeable difference is response time. In that case, since you're working with dynamic objects, just distribute the buggers to reduce server load. Clean, simple, and cheap. Hmmm, I just considered objects that inherently take a long time to render regardless of server load (databases and such). My objects aren't like that (yet), so I haven't had to deal with it. In that case, you would indeed want some mechanism to present some feedback to the user early; in this case, we will obviously need some kind of boundary or packetized data scheme; no getting around that, I suspect, if we want accurate entity-body delimiting. -- Jared_Rhine@hmc.edu / HMC / <URL:http://www.hmc.edu/~jared/home> "I regret to say that we of the F.B.I. are powerless to act in cases of oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate commerce." -- J Edgar Hoover eturn-Path: ren@dstc.edu.au Return-Path: <ren@dstc.edu.au> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA00552; Tue, 9 May 1995 21:26:10 +0500 Received: from trapdoor.dstc.edu.au by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA24430; Tue, 9 May 1995 21:26:06 +0500 Received: from foxtail.dstc.edu.au (foxtail.dstc.edu.au [130.102.176.38]) by trapdoor.dstc.edu.au (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA26210; Wed, 10 May 1995 11:26:01 +1000 Received: (from ren@localhost) by foxtail.dstc.edu.au (8.6.10/8.6.10) id LAA13023; Wed, 10 May 1995 11:26:00 +1000 Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 11:25:59 +1000 (EST) From: Renato Iannella <ren@dstc.edu.au> To: Brian Behlendorf <brian@organic.com> Cc: Multiple recipients of list <www-talk@www10.w3.org> Subject: Re: How bout types of colored links? In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9505090812.f24326-0100000@eat.organic.com> Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.91.950510112217.28764B-100000@foxtail.dstc.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 954 On Tue, 9 May 1995, Adam T. McClure wrote: > There's currently a method in > Netscape 1.1 to define different colors for visited and new links, > as well as redefining the standard text color, but there's no way > to have your own labelled links. It is not a good idea to play with link colours. Link colours should be a user option. For example, I have set my visited links to Blue and new links to Red - If you swap these around with html code you will create some problems. Use a small graphic icon to depict differnet paths. Cheers... Renato ______________________________________________________________________ Dr Renato Iannella Research Data Network CRC Distributed Systems Technology Centre TEL: +61 7 365 4310 The University of Queensland FAX: +61 7 365 4311 QLD, 4072, AUSTRALIA EMAIL: ren@dstc.edu.au ________________________________________WWW: <http://www.dstc.edu.au/> eturn-Path: bob@mano.soest.hawaii.edu Return-Path: <bob@mano.soest.hawaii.edu> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA00756; Tue, 9 May 1995 21:28:57 +0500 Received: from mano.soest.hawaii.edu by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA24448; Tue, 9 May 1995 21:28:50 +0500 Received: (from bob@localhost) by mano.soest.hawaii.edu (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA26401; Tue, 9 May 1995 15:27:31 -1000 Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 15:27:31 -1000 From: Bob Cunningham <bob@mano.soest.hawaii.edu> Message-Id: <199505100127.PAA26401@mano.soest.hawaii.edu> To: dnew@sgf.fv.com, www-talk@www10.w3.org Subject: Re: common log format...unresolved hosts? Content-Length: 362 >I was guessing these were people with dial-up slip >accounts with dynamic IP assignments. Well the local ISPs in my area dynamically assign IP numbers, but nonetheless register their entires series on DNS. But probably lots of other ISPs don't. Mainly, though, I suspect that there's simply a lot of reverse DNS table entries missing all over the world... eturn-Path: cnw3@di.uminho.pt Return-Path: <cnw3@di.uminho.pt> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA01591; Tue, 9 May 1995 21:38:16 +0500 Received: from dxmint.cern.ch by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA24483; Tue, 9 May 1995 21:37:52 +0500 Received: from wep.uminho.pt by dxmint.cern.ch id AA14574; Wed, 10 May 1995 03:37:35 +0200 Received: from s700.di.uminho.pt by wep.uminho.pt with SMTP (PP) id <15204-0@wep.uminho.pt>; Wed, 10 May 1995 03:34:39 +0200 Received: by di.uminho.pt (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18639; Wed, 10 May 95 03:34:37 +0200 Date: Wed, 10 May 95 03:34:37 +0200 From: cnw3@di.uminho.pt (Conferencia Nacional WWW) Message-Id: <9505100134.AA18639@di.uminho.pt> To: www-talk@w3.org Subject: [WWW National Conference] Registration Form and Accomodations Content-Length: 1095 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WWW National Conference Internet Multimedia Information July 6-8, 1995 Departamento de Informatica Universidade do Minho Braga, Portugal ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You can find the Registration Form (text, PostScript and html on-line "form" format) and accomodation information (html format) under the following URL: http://www.di.uminho.pt/IMI/RF/index.eng.html For more informations please contact: CNW3 Departamento de Informatica Universidade do Minho, Campus de Gualtar 4710 Braga URL: http://www.di.uminho.pt/cnw3.html Phone: +351 (53) 604470 Fax: +351 (53) 612954 email: cnw3@di.uminho.pt Best regards, The Local Organization Committee, cnw3@di.uminho.pt P.S.: Payment must be received by May 19 to receive "early-bird" prices. eturn-Path: jtilton%willamette.edu@www10.w3.org Return-Path: x-face Received: from mintaka.lcs.mit.edu by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AJ02394; Tue, 9 May 1995 21:43:25 +0500 Received: from www10.w3.org by MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU id aa12792; 9 May 95 20:54 EDT Received: from earth.willamette.edu by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA24242; Tue, 9 May 1995 20:50:23 +0500 Received: from jupiter (jtilton@jupiter.willamette.edu [158.104.1.1]) by earth.willamette.edu (8.6.12/8.6.4) with SMTP id RAA26714 for <www-talk@w3.org>; Tue, 9 May 1995 17:50:17 -0700 Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 17:50:17 -0700 (PDT) From: "James (Eric) Tilton" <jtilton@willamette.edu> To: www-talk@w3.org Subject: Versions of HTML spec Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950509174922.27867B-100000@jupiter> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1509 Hi -- we're trying to describe, in a few paragraphs, the development and significance of the various HTML specifications. I'd like to get comments on these paragraphs to see whether they are, in fact, an accurate summary: "The first release of HTML, HTML Level 0, is the original HTML specification. Although the base-level HTML reference, some of the tags present in Level 0 have since become depreciated. "HTML Level 1 includes the Level 0 tags, with some additional features, such as images, primarily introduced by the Mosaic development team. "With the introduction of it Netscape Navigator Web browser, Netscape introduced many tags which were particular to its browser, such as CENTER and BLINK. Netscape has since joined the ranks of the standards committees and have labeled the tags it introduces not within the official HTML specification as "experimental". "HTML Level 2 contained some revisions to HTML to make it an SGML-compliant language, and added support for forms. "HTML Level 3 includes work to include support for non-Western European writing systems, table, figure, and scientific notation support, client-side image maps and other interactive applications, and style sheets." My questions are -- is HTML Level 2 synonymous with HTML 2.0, and so on? Or are the conformance levels different from the version numbers, and if so, how? And, in general, is the above accurate? Any comments greatly appreciated. Thanks! -et --------End of Unsent Message-------- eturn-Path: nazgul@utopia.com Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA06727; Tue, 9 May 1995 22:19:59 +0500 Received: from utopia.com (utopia.wing.net) by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA24776; Tue, 9 May 1995 22:19:46 +0500 Received: from [204.57.39.6] by utopia.com (8.6.12/SONY-4.0MX) id WAA12004; Tue, 9 May 1995 22:17:54 -0400 Return-Path: <nazgul@utopia.com> X-Sender: nazgul@mailhost.utopia.com Message-Id: <v02110116abd5d15ab28c@[204.57.39.6]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 22:19:42 -0400 To: Jared_Rhine@hmc.edu, Multiple recipients of list <www-talk@www10.w3.org> From: nazgul@utopia.com (Kee Hinckley) Subject: Re: Content-lengths of dynamic objects Content-Length: 1251 At 8:09 PM 5/9/95, Jared Rhine wrote: > KH> This has the disadvantage of leaving the user to wait until your > KH> render is done. Otherwise for large options you could be presenting >Hmmm, I just considered objects that inherently take a long time to render >regardless of server load (databases and such). My objects aren't like tha= t >(yet), so I haven't had to deal with it. In that case, you would indeed >want some mechanism to present some feedback to the user early; in this >case, we will obviously need some kind of boundary or packetized data >scheme; no getting around that, I suspect, if we want accurate entity-body >delimiting. I think a packet oriented approach would help. I know at one time there was talk of doing inline objects that way and interspersing the packets so that you could do what Netscape does without opening N-connections to the server. Obviously it seriously complicates the protocols though. Kee Hinckley Utopia Inc. - Cyberspace Architects=81 617/721-6100 nazgul@utopia.com http://www.utopia.com/ I'm not sure which upsets me more: that people are so unwilling to accept responsibility for their own actions, or that they are so eager to regulate everyone else's. eturn-Path: jared@math.hmc.edu Return-Path: <jared@math.hmc.edu> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AB02183; Wed, 10 May 1995 02:49:52 +0500 Received: from aslan.math.hmc.edu by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA26958; Wed, 10 May 1995 02:49:43 +0500 Received: (from jared@localhost) by aslan.math.hmc.edu (8.6.8.1/8.6.7) id XAA20170; Tue, 9 May 1995 23:49:32 -0700 Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 23:49:32 -0700 Message-Id: <199505100649.XAA20170@aslan.math.hmc.edu> From: Jared Rhine <Jared_Rhine@hmc.edu> To: nazgul@utopia.com Cc: Multiple recipients of list <www-talk@www10.w3.org> Subject: Re: Content-lengths of dynamic objects References: <v02110116abd5d15ab28c@[204.57.39.6]> X-Attribution: JRhine X-Uri: <URL:http://www.hmc.edu/~jared/home> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1456 [Citation date: Tue, 9 May 1995 22:58:03 +0500] KH == Kee Hinckley <nazgul@utopia.com> KH> This has the disadvantage of leaving the user to wait until your KH> render is done. JRhine> ...we will obviously need some kind of boundary or packetized data JRhine> scheme; no getting around that, I suspect, if we want accurate JRhine> entity-body delimiting. KH> I think a packet oriented approach would help. I know at one time KH> there was talk of doing inline objects that way and interspersing the KH> packets so that you could do what Netscape does without opening KH> N-connections to the server. Obviously it seriously complicates the KH> protocols though. That is a different issue and definitely best left to HTTP NG. The original issue was how to guarantee the client that they have received the full entity-body, specifically how to do this for dynamic objects. I suggested that one way to handle this was to put the entity-body on disk and then use content-length. If you don't want to do that, I believe there are two primary proposals: unique boundaries and packet encoding. I don't think packet encoding was ever discussed in the context of multiplexing a connection, as you discuss. -- Jared_Rhine@hmc.edu / HMC / <URL:http://www.hmc.edu/~jared/home> "To hear many religious people talk, one would think God created the torso, head, legs and arms, but the devil slapped on the genitals." -- Don Schrader eturn-Path: jared@math.hmc.edu Return-Path: <jared@math.hmc.edu> Received: from www10.w3.org by www19 (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA03541; Wed, 10 May 1995 02:57:07 +0500 Received: from aslan.math.hmc.edu by www10.w3.org (5.0/NSCS-1.0S) id AA27059; Wed, 10 May 1995 02:57:01 +0500 Received: (from jared@localhost) by aslan.math.hmc.edu (8.6.8.1/8.6.7) id XAA20191; Tue, 9 May 1995 23:56:54 -0700 Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 23:56:54 -0700 Message-Id: <199505100656.XAA20191@aslan.math.hmc.edu> From: Jared Rhine <Jared_Rhine@hmc.edu> To: Rainer Klute <klute@nads.de> Cc: Multiple recipients of list <www-talk@www10.w3.org> Subject: Expires non-compliance References: <199505090730.AAA09553@aslan.math.hmc.edu> <199505090830.KAA11662@heike.nads.de> X-Attribution: JRhine X-Uri: <URL:http://www.hmc.edu/~jared/home> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1079 [Citation date: Tue, 09 May 1995 10:30:57 +0200] RK == Rainer Klute <klute