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RE: Any update on TAG request?

From: Larry Masinter <masinter@adobe.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 23:04:25 -0700
To: "Phillips, Addison" <addison@lab126.com>, Noah Mendelsohn <nrm@arcanedomain.com>, Jonathan Rees <jar@creativecommons.org>
CC: "www-tag@w3.org" <www-tag@w3.org>
Message-ID: <C68CB012D9182D408CED7B884F441D4D05D41A82B5@nambxv01a.corp.adobe.com>
Sorry for being so grumpy about this... now I see the minutes of a June 29 meeting (of? The minutes are unclear as to what / who met with what scope). I did also see on www-tag that Paul Cotton asked you to raise this as a HTML WG issue to meet one of their deadlines...Did that happen?

After a little digging, I found
  http://www.w3.org/wiki/I18N/CanonicalNormalization

which seemed like a summary of the issues and some of the alternatives. Is that document still a valid summary?

it listed 7 choices, not 2.  You said you had two choices, so presumably some of the seven have been eliminated? 

http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/CharmodNormSummary

lists one draft recommendation, and asks for " Internationalization WG members are invited to insert comments during the review period" but doesn't identify what "the review period" is. What is the status of that document?

In addition, I've been struggling with IRI comparison/equivalence/canonicalization/normalization in the IETF IRI working group, and very recently split out 
  http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-iri-comparison-00

as a separate document with the hope of getting explicit focus on the issues. I would like to ask that document be added to the mix of background documents to review.

I think the other input needed is a clear summary of what existing widely deployed implementations currently DO. I haven't found that, especially around normalization of input methods.

Larry


-----Original Message-----
From: www-tag-request@w3.org [mailto:www-tag-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Phillips, Addison
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 7:18 AM
To: Noah Mendelsohn; Jonathan Rees
Cc: www-tag@w3.org
Subject: RE: Any update on TAG request?

Hi Noah,

Thanks for this. I am writing a response to Larry's note, but haven't had time to finish it today. I hope to send it in the morning.

Our concern is that we have two possible somewhat-mutually-exclusive courses of action regarding normalization and it would be best if the current crop of high-profile specs embraced one or the other. The I18N WG would like to clarify and publish a real CR for Charmod-Norm supporting what the Web actually does. We look to TAG to help provide that guidance by reviewing the alternatives and helping us make the better recommendation (based on practicality and on the needs of the Web as a community).

Please let me know what, if any, information would be helpful. Please note that, in the email referenced below, "reference [4]" is actually "reference [3]".

Addison

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Noah Mendelsohn [mailto:nrm@arcanedomain.com]
> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 6:32 PM
> To: Jonathan Rees
> Cc: www-tag@w3.org; Phillips, Addison
> Subject: Re: Any update on TAG request?
> 
> Yes, I've been remiss and owe a followup. I convess that I'm not the 
> one with domain expertise in this, but I intend to give it a look 
> within the next few days to see whether I can figure out next steps, 
> if any, for the TAG. My apologies for the delay; it had indeed slipped 
> through the cracks when I went through my post-vacation email in early July, and was "lost"
> until I was reminded on the 4th of August.
> 
> Noah
> 
> On 8/18/2011 12:28 PM, Jonathan Rees wrote:
> > [Content-free reply, just creating links for tracker]
> >
> > This came up on Aug 4,
> > http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/08/04-minutes#item04

> >
> > There was no substantive discussion but...
> >
> > ACTION-590 - Follow up with Addison Phillips on Unicode 
> > normalization 
> > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2011Jun/0188.html [on 
> > Noah Mendelsohn - due 2011-08-11]
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 12:16 PM, Larry Masinter<masinter@adobe.com>
> wrote:
> >> I guess this flew by ... Maybe I'm completely missing something?  
> >> I'm not
> sure what the TAG is going to add to this, or why it should be a TAG finding.
> >>
> >> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2011Jun/0188.html

> >>
> >> contains:
> >> # In the meantime, documents such as CSS3 Selectors and HTML5 
> >> depend on or could be impacted by Unicode Normalization.  In a 
> >> discussion with Peter Linss, co-chair of CSS, and others [4],
> >>
> >> But there is no reference [4].
> >>
> >> # it was felt that the best course of action was to allow some or 
> >> all existing
> specs to make progress while seeking a TAG finding to clarify the 
> direction for normalization going forwards.
> >>
> >> I don't understand why this is the "best course of action"...
> >>
> >> You are the internationalization experts, the TAG are not. Why 
> >> isn't the best
> course of action for the W3C I18N working group to finish its document 
> based on community consensus, including the CSS and HTML working groups?
> >>
> >> #  Some members of our WG feel that closure on the issue of 
> >> normalization
> is important for future interoperability.
> >>
> >> Yes, sounds good.
> >>
> >> http://www.w3.org/TR/charmod-norm/

> >>
> >> If there were some disagreement or opposing viewpoints or an issue 
> >> where
> the TAG could act as a tie-breaker, that might be a different 
> situation, but so far all I can see is some work that the 
> Internationalization working group (of which you are chair) hasn't finished.
> >>
> >> What am I missing?
> >>
> >> Larry
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: www-tag-request@w3.org [mailto:www-tag-request@w3.org] On 
> >> Behalf Of Phillips, Addison
> >> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 5:47 PM
> >> To: www-tag@w3.org
> >> Cc: member-i18n-core@w3.org
> >> Subject: Any update on TAG request?
> >>
> >> Dear TAG,
> >>
> >> Some time ago, I requested [1] some time from the TAG to consider 
> >> the
> problem of normalization in W3C specs. I didn't get a response from 
> the TAG. I do see a recent new action in your tracker (ACTION-590), 
> but the minutes related to it seem slightly different from our request.
> >>
> >> Could you please clarify when we should prepare to discuss this 
> >> issue with
> TAG?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Addison
> >>
> >> [1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2011Jun/0188.html

> >>
> >> Addison Phillips
> >> Globalization Architect (Lab126)
> >> Chair (W3C I18N WG)
> >>
> >> Internationalization is not a feature.
> >> It is an architecture.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
Received on Friday, 19 August 2011 06:05:01 GMT

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