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Draft minutes of TAG teleconference of 11 March 2010

From: <noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 13:35:03 -0400
To: www-tag@w3.org
Message-ID: <OF8EC0B2C6.D90CA261-ON852576EB.00601D11-852576EB.00603A0E@lotus.com>
Unapproved draft minutes of the TAG teleconference of 11 March 2010 are 
now available at [1], and are attached in text-only form below.  Thank 
you.

Noah

[1] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2010/03/11-minutes

--------------------------------------
Noah Mendelsohn 
IBM Corporation
One Rogers Street
Cambridge, MA 02142
1-617-693-4036
--------------------------------------


   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

                      TAG weekly phone conference

11 Mar 2010

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/tag-weekly.html

Attendees

   Present
          Noah Mendelsohn, Larry Masinter, Dan Connolly, John Kemp,
          Jonathan Rees, Ashok Malhotra, Henry S. Thompson

   Regrets
          Tim Berners-Lee, Raman

   Chair
          noah

   Scribe
          Larry Masinter

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]Convene
         2. [5]F2F agenda #2: HTML coordination
         3. [6]F2F agenda #3: Meet Jeff Jaffe, introduction to TAG
         4. [7]F2F agenda #4: HTML5 review ISSUE-41 versioning,
            Doctypes, ...
         5. [8]F2F agenda #5: HTML5 Decentralized Extensibility
         6. [9]F2F agenda #5
         7. [10]F2F agenda #6, content-type override, sniffing
         8. [11]F2F agenda #7: Secrets in URIs
         9. [12]F2F agenda #8: HTTP Semantics
        10. [13]F2F Agenda #9: uniform access to metadata
        11. [14]f2f Agenda #10: Web Application Architecture Taxonomy
        12. [15]F2F agenda #11: Client-side storage
        13. [16]f2f agenda #13: Policy & privacy
        14. [17]F2F Agenda #12: Persistent naming
        15. [18]F2F #14, coordination with other groups
        16. [19]f2f agenda #15, IRI everywhere
        17. [20]F2F agenda #16, admin issues
        18. [21]Action item review
     * [22]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

   <scribe> scribenick: masinter

   <scribe> scribe: Larry Masinter

   Date: 11 March 2010

Convene

   Minutes for last week not ready

   Next phone conference cancelled, next meeting at F2F

   Main topic today: F2F agenda
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2010/03/24-agenda.html

     [23] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2010/03/24-agenda.html

F2F agenda #2: HTML coordination

   noah: HTML WG chairs will be joining. Best time for them will be
   early wednesday. Will convene at 9 without them, 9:30-10 they will
   join. Paul Cotton, maybe Sam, not Maciej.

   <DanC> [24]Interview: Paul Cotton on Microsoft Participation in the
   W3C HTML Working Group

     [24] http://www.w3.org/QA/2010/03/interview_paul_cotton_on_micro.html

   <DanC> FYI

   Larry: Is the topic technical or process?

   Noah: whatever we want; may extend to after lunch

   danc: want to ask them about their plan for last call/CR

   Noah: Want to list this in the agenda

F2F agenda #3: Meet Jeff Jaffe, introduction to TAG

   noah: took liberty to invite him to pop into TAG meetings any time

   <DanC> (if you want to see what's been on Jeff's mind technically,
   [25]http://securenaturalcommunications.blogspot.com/ is pretty
   interesting)

     [25] http://securenaturalcommunications.blogspot.com/

   Larry: Note topic suggestion in email

   <Danc> [26]http://www.w3.org/mid/005201cabff1$140b9f50$3c22ddf0$@org

     [26] http://www.w3.org/mid/005201cabff1$140b9f50$3c22ddf0$@org

   Larry: "I don't think there was a lot of effect to show for the TAG
   time invested in the topics listed in:
   [27]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2010/sum03.html"

     [27] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2010/sum03.html

   <noah> +1 if you share larry's concern

   <jar> +1 share larry's feelings (or feelings similar to them)

   <noah> My vote is either -1 or 0

   <johnk> +1 also to Larry

   <ht> 0 to Larry

   <DanC> no strong feelings

   <Ashok> 0

   <DanC> (I'm curious about how noah's 393 got to be pending review,
   but don't need to nail it down now)

F2F agenda #4: HTML5 review ISSUE-41 versioning, Doctypes, ...

   (discussion of agenda items)

F2F agenda #5: HTML5 Decentralized Extensibility

   (changed title to reflect ISSUE-54)

   discussion about decentralized extensibility, relationship to
   language versioning

   issue-54?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-54 -- Tag soup integration -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [28]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/54

     [28] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/54

   issue-41?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-41 -- What are good practices for designing
   extensible languages and for handling versioning? -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [29]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/41

     [29] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/41

   <DanC> (editorial, under 4: "# Note from Dan reporting some
   progress" should be tucked under ACTION-364)

F2F agenda #5

   Larry: I wonder whether 4 and 5 should be reorganized to match how
   the topics are being discussed in HTML WG
   ... please review
   [30]http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html
   ...
   [31]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Jan/0015.htm
   l
   ...
   [32]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Feb/0718.htm
   l
   ... change proposal and counter-proposal
   ... my suggestion is that HTML5 discussions should be aligned with
   HTML5 issues

     [30] http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html
     [31] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Jan/0015.html
     [32] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Feb/0718.html

   <DanC> HTML WG issue 4
   [33]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/4

     [33] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/4

   <DanC> HTML Versioning and DOCTYPEs

   <DanC> and [34]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/53 Need to
   update media type registrations

     [34] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/53

   Larry: note that issue 53 is being discussed in HTML WG, but without
   link to issue
   ... the email in HTML WG is discussing "registration of text/html",
   but the email isn't linked from their 53 tracker item

   <DanC> ah... right... Re: Re-registration of text/html
   [35]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Mar/thread.h
   tml#msg272

     [35] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Mar/thread.html#msg272

   <DanC> larry, on that thread, I think that's covered by my action
   TAG ACTION-364

   action-364?

   <trackbot> ACTION-364 -- Dan Connolly to ask HTML WG team contacts
   to make a change proposal re issue-53 mediatypereg informed by HT's
   analysis and today's discussion -- due 2010-02-25 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot> [36]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/364

     [36] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/364

   <DanC> ACTION-113 due 1 Apr

   <trackbot> ACTION-113 HT to a) revise composition.pdf to take
   account of suggestions from Tim & Jonathan and feedback from email
   and b) produce a new version of the Elaborated Infoset finding,
   possibly incorporating some of the PDF due date now 1 Apr

F2F agenda #6, content-type override, sniffing

   <johnk> I'm happy with my part of it

   <DanC> action-399?

   <trackbot> ACTION-399 -- John Kemp to prepare F2F discussion of
   sniffing, being sure to check status of other pertinent actions --
   due 2010-03-18 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [37]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/399

     [37] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/399

   <noah> [38]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/399

     [38] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/399

   <DanC> action-399 due 24 Mar

   <trackbot> ACTION-399 Prepare F2F discussion of sniffing, being sure
   to check status of other pertinent actions due date now 24 Mar

   johnk: will be prepared, but will be last minute

   action-386?

   <trackbot> ACTION-386 -- Larry Masinter to review
   draft-barth-sniff-4 and send comments, cc TAG -- due 2010-04-08 --
   OPEN

   <trackbot> [39]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/386

     [39] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/386

   <DanC> ACTION-387 due 24 March

   <trackbot> ACTION-387 Review JK/NM's stuff on sniffing,
   authoritative metadata, self-describing web, incl.
   [40]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2010Jan/0025.html
   due date now 24 March

     [40] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2010Jan/0025.html

   Larry: I've got a subtopic for item 6. Just sent an email. Can we
   make progress on the smaller issue.

   <noah> Chair thinks this in relation to Larry's ACTION-386

   Larry: There seems to be an assumption on the part of some that data
   has an intrinsic type

   Noah: Do you believe that?

   Larry: I don't tend to believe it, and it leads the discussion to
   rest on a false assumption.
   ... A bag of bits doesn't have a type until you assign one

   <DanC> (rephrasing the terminology _is_ addressing the issue)

   <DanC> (ah... found it... "What is 'the type of X' if X doesn't have
   a declared type? " ... highligting in tracker)

   nm: will add the linked email to the agenda for f2f

   <noah> NM: I will add a link to your email with a heads up about
   bags of bits not having types, all under existing agenda item 6

F2F agenda #7: Secrets in URIs

   <noah> ACTION-341: on - Noah Mendelsohn - Follow up with Thomas
   about security review activities for HTML5 - Due: 2010-03-26 - OPEN

   <trackbot> ACTION-341 Follow up with Thomas about security review
   activities for HTML5 notes added

   noah: would you like me to add metadataURI-31 secrets in URIs to
   discuss with TLR?

   jar: something should be prepared to be reviewed

   noah: goals of session should be frame TAG analysis that would be
   suitable input for review by security community?

   <DanC> (that suggests *not* moving the due date on noah's ACTION-341
   before the F2F)

   <DanC> ACTION-341: see also ISSUE-31 (metadatainURI-31)

   <trackbot> ACTION-341 Follow up with Thomas about security review
   activities for HTML5 notes added

   noah: what i'll try to do under 341 and point out that the F2F
   upcoming and ask for input

   jar: URIs containing secrets is part of a draft that Tyler published
   within WebApps. "PowerBox"

   noah: powerbox was specific Google issue

   <DanC> (I don't have any reason to belive that tlr read the PowerBox
   thing)

   jar: there's a link; this issue is probably on TLR radar

   <noah> NM: Powerbox is a bigger thing, with its own goals and
   functions -- are you saying that it has some webkey like stuff
   somewhere in it?

   <DanC> ACTION-341 due Friday

   <trackbot> ACTION-341 Follow up with Thomas about security review
   activities for HTML5 due date now Friday

   Larry: I propose we add "Security Coordination" to agenda discussion
   with Jaffe

   <DanC> [41]http://securenaturalcommunications.blogspot.com/

     [41] http://securenaturalcommunications.blogspot.com/

   <DanC> ^ suggest linking that nearby

F2F agenda #8: HTTP Semantics

   Larry I didn't read speaks_for has having much to do with metadata

   <Zakim> DanC, you wanted to note the email traffic about speaks_for
   suggests it doesn't merit ftf time

   noah: Happy to remove reference to "Metadata" from 8

   <DanC> (yeah, the connection to metadata is... nevermind)

   jar: good idea, doesn't have much to do with metadata

   noah: (speaking for myself) We shouldn't spend a lot of time on the
   details of the formalism
   ... do they think they can make progress about HTTP
   ... is the next step F2F time?

   danc: will go into the details

   <DanC> I suppose 383 is done to my satisfaction, yeah

   masinter: if we have any discussion at F2F on this, we should
   discuss meta-issue of how to get this done

   Larry: I wish that item 8 didn't have "HTTP" in the title. This
   should be "network access semantics", not "HTTP"; it doesn't matter
   if the data is distributed by HTTP, FTP, sneakernet, orbittorrent

F2F Agenda #9: uniform access to metadata

   noah: discussion, not on F2F agenda, kill this as topic

f2f Agenda #10: Web Application Architecture Taxonomy

   ashok: could we get webapps people to look at this as a sanity
   check?
   ... can ask Art Barstow

   larry: send it to webapps working group?

   <scribe> ACTION: Ashok to ask WebApps working group to review John
   Kemp's taxonomy

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-401 - Ask WebApps working group to review
   John Kemp's taxonomy [on Ashok Malhotra - due 2010-03-18].

F2F agenda #11: Client-side storage

   ashok: This can be discussed with the third item in John's taxonomy:
   Dynamic Client-side mashup.

f2f agenda #13: Policy & privacy

   ashok: There has been some mail on this. We should talk to Thomas
   Roessler and decide how to proceed.

F2F Agenda #12: Persistent naming

   action-351?

   <trackbot> ACTION-351 -- Henry S. Thompson to look into a workshop
   on persistence... perhaps the June 2010 timeframe -- due 2010-03-16
   -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [42]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/351

     [42] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/351

   <ht> wrt URNsAndRegistries-50

   issue-50?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-50 -- URIs, URNs, "location independent" naming
   systems and associated registries for naming on the Web -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [43]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/50

     [43] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/50

   ht: would like this on the agenda, and JAR and HT had a discussion
   for agenda

   <scribe> ACTION: JAR to summarize message he sent to HT about URNs
   and registries and put it on the agenda

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-402 - Summarize message to HT and put it
   on the agenda [on Jonathan Rees - due 2010-03-18].

   action 402 about URNs and Registries

   <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 402

   action-351?

   <trackbot> ACTION-351 -- Henry S. Thompson to look into a workshop
   on persistence... perhaps the June 2010 timeframe -- due 2010-03-16
   -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [44]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/351

     [44] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/351

   ht: continuing to think about offering to host in june

F2F #14, coordination with other groups

   i'm happy to drop this item and also to see action-377 closed

   <noah> CLOSE ACTION-377

   <trackbot> ACTION-377 Frame discussion about how TAG communicated
   with WGs closed

   noah: I will kill off Agenda item 14

f2f agenda #15, IRI everywhere

   not sure this needs tag discussion

   danc: timing is important

F2F agenda #16, admin issues

   discussion of future meetings

   noah: please look at tentative agenda

Action item review

   <DanC> ACTION-389: LMM proposes to withdraw; DanC wants to think
   about it a bit

   <trackbot> ACTION-389 Take Dan's proposal on resource/representation
   and turn it into a change proposal notes added

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Ashok to ask WebApps working group to review John
   Kemp's taxonomy
   [NEW] ACTION: JAR to summarize message he sent to HT about URNs and
   registries and put it on the agenda

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________


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